IHC M1 Garand Hang Fires

Recce21

Recce21

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Gents,

I just started to reload for my IHC Garand and I have run into a problem. I loaded IMR 4064 over a CCI Large Rigle primer pushing a 150 grain Hornady BTSP. Everytime I fired it I had a hang fire. A VERY obvious click pause BANG! I have never used CCI before but the 4064 has been used in my Enfields and K98 without any problems. Is it the primers or am I missing something in regards to loading for the Garand. All primer strikes were good and I actually had one heavy strike with no bang at all. Thanks and I am sure this is an easy answer which I will feel stupid in hind sight.

Recce21
 
Hangfires are normally due to faulty/oil contaminated primers. I don't use CCI LR primers in my Garands, but have fired thousands of rounds using IMR 4064 and any of CCI 34, WLR, and Rem LR primers. When reloading for the Garand always seat primers slightly below flush with the casehead, keep cases trimmed to below max, and FL re-size. Does your rifle fire reliably with MILSPEC ammo?
 
Good shot there from Purple.

I have used an awful pile of CCI LR primers over the last 30 years and have had no problems.

Your problem is either oil in the primers or primers not seated deep enough into the brass.
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Some of the other possibilities include too light a load, or a very long throat.

What is your load?

The throat situation is one I have experienced, where with a short bullet, the throat was long enough that the bullet had completely left the case neck before it engaged with the rifling, leading to a rapid pressure drop, followed by an increase once the bullet engaged the rifling, i.e. a hangfire.
 
No. You have a pirmer up condition. This is the action slamming the round into the chamber and the powder piles up against the bullet. The flame from the primer takes extra time to light the powder. If you chamber the round and tip the muzzle up before you fire, there won't be any hesitation before firing. You either need to go to magnum primers which will change your load or change your powder to increase your overall bulk in the case to overcome this. If you check military loads you will find them pretty much stuffed full. If you have oil on your primers, they won't do anything. If primers are'nt deep enough you may just have a misfire from the cushioned blow. Or an out of battery detonation. Try the muzzle up before the shot, if that works then re-engineer your load.
 
browningautorifle said:
No. You have a pirmer up condition. This is the action slamming the round into the chamber and the powder piles up against the bullet. The flame from the primer takes extra time to light the powder. If you chamber the round and tip the muzzle up before you fire, there won't be any hesitation before firing. You either need to go to magnum primers which will change your load or change your powder to increase your overall bulk in the case to overcome this. If you check military loads you will find them pretty much stuffed full. If you have oil on your primers, they won't do anything. If primers are'nt deep enough you may just have a misfire from the cushioned blow. Or an out of battery detonation. Try the muzzle up before the shot, if that works then re-engineer your load.
Click to expand...

That is a very interesting suggestion. You may be right. Sometimes I would get a normal "detonation" from the reloads but mostly the "hang fires". I did have the one misfire - primer struck that would not fire even after multiple chamberings. I did load a light load for the Garand and I did notice there was a lot of space left in the case. I will do the 85% water volume test with the fired rounds tonight and try a differenct loading with the CCI's as well as my original loading that was causing me some issues.
 
My well proven loads in a number of Garands with IMR 4064 and any of CCI No 34, WLR, and Rem LR primers in Lake City 68 Match Brass (192gr case weight)are:

150gr Hornady BTSP or 155 gr Sierra Match with 48gr IMR 4064, OAL 2.285"

168gr Sierra Match with 46gr IMR 4064, OAL 3.330". This one is Sierra's recommended accuracy load as well.

These are safe, accurate, never hangfire and cycle the rifle reliably.
 
Recce21 said:
That is a very interesting suggestion. You may be right. Sometimes I would get a normal "detonation" from the reloads but mostly the "hang fires". I did have the one misfire - primer struck that would not fire even after multiple chamberings. I did load a light load for the Garand and I did notice there was a lot of space left in the case. I will do the 85% water volume test with the fired rounds tonight and try a differenct loading with the CCI's as well as my original loading that was causing me some issues.
Click to expand...
What was your load?

The primer might have fired, but not ignited the powder. When you pulled it down, was the primer blackened and the powder "clumped"?
 
M1 rifles are notorious for the primer up condition. Mostly because of the looonnng case. If you can test your ammo, all you need is two clips. Before firing tip the muzzle up 45 degrees and slight shake. Every round. Second clip do the opposite. Muzzle down and shake. Then you know if it's the ammo or not. Just work with the loads like Purple's showing you. No light loads. Cartridges of the world shows military loads to compare. This was something a US shooter poated years ago or I never would have figured it out.
 
"...due to faulty/oil contaminated primers..." Or bad powder or no powder. Pull a few.
"...M1 rifles are notorious for the primer up condition..." Whoever told you that is confused.
"...No light loads..." Purple's loads are light loads.
 
No one's confused sunray. I've had it happen enough to know it's true. Just because you don't know about it doesn't matter. Purple's not the one with the problem. Carry on.
 
Andy said:
What was your load?

The primer might have fired, but not ignited the powder. When you pulled it down, was the primer blackened and the powder "clumped"?
Click to expand...

I checked my load data and I was shooting the Hornady 150 gr SPBT over 39.6 gr of H335 inside Remington brass with a CCI Large Rifle Primer.

When I pulled the misfire-primer struck round the powder was not clumped and the primer was unfired.
 
Ball powders can be notoriously difficult to ignite properly, depending on the actual lot and the type/amount of flame retardant used. Remember Jammin' Jenny? Basic problem there was the large amount of flame retardant on the Winchester ammo; they didn't have that problem at all with the test ammo, which was Remington and made with IMR powders. Of course, telling the troopies that the thing never required cleaning didn't help a heck of a lot, either.

I have used a great number of CCI primers in .30-'06 ammo...... but I use extruded-type powders, also.

Purple's loads are not what I would call "light" but they aren't barn-burners, either. They are well within the recommnded specs for the M1 rifle. They are also darned accurate.

Hope this helps.
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Recce21 said:
I checked my load data and I was shooting the Hornady 150 gr SPBT over 39.6 gr of H335 inside Remington brass with a CCI Large Rifle Primer.

When I pulled the misfire-primer struck round the powder was not clumped and the primer was unfired.
Click to expand...

That is a very light load of ball powder for any .30-06, let alone a Garand. One should avoid reduced/ light loads of ball powders, especially in a case with the capacity of the .30-06 in relation to the volume of the propellant. This is a safety issue.


Best/most reliable/accurate/safe propellants in the Garand are IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 with bullets in the 150-168gr range. Done.
 
Recce21 said:
I checked my load data and I was shooting the Hornady 150 gr SPBT over 39.6 gr of H335 inside Remington brass with a CCI Large Rifle Primer.

When I pulled the misfire-primer struck round the powder was not clumped and the primer was unfired.
Click to expand...

That's almost 8.0 grs under the minimum load. Case closed. H335 likes magnum primers and does not work at all well below published minimums. I have seen what you saw with H335 at 43.0 grs in the 30-06, and tried a light load in the 45-70, and the same thing - hangfires.

The primer that didn't fire (if you are sure it didn't fire and it can be difficult to tell), well that was a primer that didn't fire - can't say why.
 
browningautorifle said:
What happened to the 4064 loads?
Click to expand...

I forgot that I loaded them with H335 because I was trying to use it up. I didn't realize it was H335 until I pulled the misfired bullet and noticed the flake size.

Andy said:
That's almost 8.0 grs under the minimum load. Case closed. H335 likes magnum primers and does not work at all well below published minimums. I have seen what you saw with H335 at 43.0 grs in the 30-06, and tried a light load in the 45-70, and the same thing - hangfires.

The primer that didn't fire (if you are sure it didn't fire and it can be difficult to tell), well that was a primer that didn't fire - can't say why.
Click to expand...

I used 39.6 grains because my Hornady manual listed that as the starting load for the 150 gr with H335. It was suppose to push the round 2400 fps. I am DEFINITELY going to use 4064 in the future.
 
ALL US military ammo in .30-'06 has IMR-4895 as the specified powder; it was developed originally specially for the '06.

I have no idea how many BILLIONS of rounds of '06 have been loaded with 4895 since the start of WW2, but it's gotta be a lot.

That said, 4064 does seem a bit more accurate in some rifles and it is VERY close in RBR.
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