LEE bottom pour or ladle pot?

Canuck Bob

Canuck Bob

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Looking for advice on bottom pour or ladle LEE 20# pots?

The reported or maybe over reported bottom pour drip on American sites concerned me but guys are making me rethink. RCBS and LYMAN are out due to cost.

Thanks moderator, never even thought about this forum!!
 
Bottom pour

While there is sometimes a bit of drip with a bottom pour lead pot, I have found that it is not too much of a bother to me. I think maybe they are safer in that you do not have to handle hot lead with a ladle and pour it into the mould, then put the ladle down, pick up the stick and hit the cut off on the mould.

There is also a bit more versatility as you can get a stubborn mould to fill out by putting it up directly against the spout to get some pressure to fill the cavity.

The LEE has a slot in the valve rod where you can put a screwdriver and rotate it back and forth a bit to clear the valve for a better seal. I would not go back to a ladle and pot if I can help it.
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The Lee 20# Bottom Pour Melter is the BOMB! I use mine to cast bullets and to make ingots from raw WheelWeights. Easy to scoop the dross and clips from the wide mouth. Flux often and generously...I use leftover candle wax, chopped into corn niblet sized pellets. Stir carefully while fluxing to get all the clip/trash/ash to float.

What I like about using the bottom pour valve, rather than ladling, the lead out of the bottom spout is cleaner, because any dross/ash/dirt float on lead. So if you wanted to use a ladle, you need to keep the top of the melt clean by constant fluxing and skimming...not a bad thing but it takes more than I care to put into it.

Yeah the bottom valve leaks sometimes. Have a screwdriver handy to turn the screw on top of the needle valve, just to loosen some dirt that may have wedged intself in the valve body below. Should take care of the leak.

You can also try screwing down the needle valve an eight of a turn at a time, in case it has worn a bit and doesn't drop down enough to seal.

Anyways, if and when it leaks, it is an easy twist/turn of the screw....no biggie....never bothered me. Hardly happens anyway in the three years casting.

If the valve stops pouring, it could be your melt got too cold. Your thermostat may be set a little too cold, or you are putting in cold ingots faster than the pot and heat up to melting temp. My thermostant is set between 6 and 7 when I am casting fast contiuously and in the groove. I end up with frosty bullets this way.

If I cast slower, I just keep the thermostat at 5.5 and wait for the melt to heat up before casting. Bullets are shinier this way, but then paper targets don't care about bullet finish.

I preheat ingots by placing them on the top lip of the pot about 10 minutes.
They will melt easier and not cool down the melt sufficiently to solidify/cool it down. Place a cold ingot on there, as soon as you drop a preheated ingot.
 
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I tried hard to continue to use the Lee bottom pour, but gave up and had to seal it shut.
I am just as fast with a ladle, and no muss.
Someone said, --put the ladle down---. You put it back in the pot between uses, where it floats and stays hot.
A cast iron pot on a electric burner would be just as good, but since I have the Lee pot I use it. The Lee pot has to be adjusted for heat, as the metal level changes.
 
Put a ingot mould under the mould rest to catch the drips and there is no mess and no waste ! I have been casting with the Lee 4-20 for 5 years and have had no trouble / greif with it ! I suppose if you are going to compare it to a pot that costs nerly 5 times as much it may not be quite as nice . But for the $400.00 difference , I can throw a little "dripped" lead back into the pot with the sprues !
 
The price of the alternatives is just too much.

I like the option of plugging the spout as mentioned and throwing the bottom pour stuff in the bush if it doesn't work as I like. For the few bucks involved I think the BP is the one and a plug if it bothers me after some use.

I like the safety aspect in that I can cover the melt with a barrier to exclude oxide formation, reduce the fluxing, and control the fumes.

Bullet production will be for a couple of levers at this time. A 32-20 and a 444. Hoping to load a plain base plinker and a gas check hunting bullet for each. The lead will be magnum lead shot and roofing scrap lead with some tin.

I'll add a thermometer to the list. Can't wait until reloading gets cheap! Right now it seems like I need to cast about 10000 bullets to beat Bullet Barn's price when the gear is averaged out.
 
I've had a Lyman pot (which I still have), a Lee bottom pour, and my current RCBS bottom pour (yes, the $500 one). Yes, the RCBS beats everything. The Lee one leaked after the second use, and the element burnt out on the 3rd use. I removed the pot portion, and put it on a propane burner....used that for a bit....it still leaked...it was a general pain in the butt. I got a deal on a Lyman pot which I used with a ladle for about a year...that worked great. Then I got a deal and a half on the RCBS Promelt....there's no going back now.

If I had to make a choice between the Lee bottom pour or using a ladle, I'd take the ladle hands down. I don't like having to eat Asprin before a casting session so I can avoid the headache I know I'll get from using a Lee(ko-matic).
 
Bob,
You will probably save money casting for your 444 Marlin if you shoot it quite a bit as the dia. of the bore increases so does the price of jacket bullets..
And since you are casting for it you might as well cast for your 32-20..
But a warning:
Shooting cast boolits is a continuing education/learning adventure, esp. in rifles and you may end up spending way more than if you just bought jacketed bullets to begin with.. :D
 
H4831 said:
I tried hard to continue to use the Lee bottom pour, but gave up and had to seal it shut.
I am just as fast with a ladle, and no muss.
Someone said, --put the ladle down---. You put it back in the pot between uses, where it floats and stays hot.
A cast iron pot on a electric burner would be just as good, but since I have the Lee pot I use it. The Lee pot has to be adjusted for heat, as the metal level changes.
Click to expand...

This has been my experience too. I started with a ladle, then bottom pour, now back to ladle. I made myself a ladle big enough to do a Lee 230 grain 6-banger with one continuous pour. I find it works really well and very fast. I also leave a "tab" of lead on the end so that I can remove the sprue with my gloved fingers and gently put it back into the pot before releasing the bullets. Like anything else it's easy to get very fast at this with repetition. Including waiting for new lead to reach temperature and fluxing, I can easily produce several thousand .45 ACPs in a nice afternoon casting marathon. I can do even more 9mm because the mold doesn't need cooling down quite so often.

The artistic sculptures that develop under the Lee bottom pour pot with a leak are kinda cool though. Anyone think I could sell some to the National Gallery? I've seen crap there worth millions of dollars that wasn't as nice....
 
blacksmithden said:
If I had to make a choice between the Lee bottom pour or using a ladle, I'd take the ladle hands down. I don't like having to eat Asprin before a casting session so I can avoid the headache I know I'll get from using a Lee(ko-matic).
Click to expand...

The Lee pots are leaking. So what?
I put a stainless steel pan under and every now an then dump the leaked lead back in the pot. I have to do it for the sprue anyways.
And casting it's way faster than using a ladle.
 
The problem comes down to economics. I want to shoot lead to get my costs per round real cheap. That's why I chose a 32-20. I am a guy who wants to cast to shoot more not cast for its own sake. I'm having serious second thoughts considering my shooting volumes.

If I stumble on an RCBS or Lyman cheap that would be ideal but unlikely. If I was casting for high production shooting sports I would not hesitate to buy the RCBS and good gear. There is a simple joy in using capable tools instead of "making do".

I've actually placed my cast tooling on hold for now. Once I assembled a buying list to get started properly it was just too expensive right now. The dirt cheap option is not appealing. I can't get motivated for scrounging lead, using hotplates and junk store pots with hand or pan lubing, and the cheapest molds money can buy. 20 years ago it would have been an exciting challenge now it would be a royal pain.
 
Canuck Bob said:
I am a guy who wants to cast to shoot more not cast for its own sake. I'm having serious second thoughts considering my shooting volumes.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your economics. If you cast, the more you shoot the more you save. Now on the other hand if you absolutely hate casting and are a professional (MD, lawyer, etc.) whose time is worth a lot of money, I could understand why you'd rather buy factory rounds and spend the time sailing on your yacht while shooting clays off the deck instead of casting. Personally, I'd be salvaging the keel of the boat to turn into bullets! :D

As far as Lee pots are concerned, I have one that must be at least 20 years old and still works fine. They're just pots with a heating element and a temperature control. There's not much to go wrong. It just melts lead. My newer one works fine too.

I also use the Lee 6-banger moulds and can easily produce thousands of bullets on a nice Sunday afternoon. While I do it to shoot, I also enjoy it. Otherwise, I'd be like you and spend a bit more and buy my bullets. Heck, I enjoy casting more than reloading, so I'd probably buy finished factory rounds! :p

Not sure what the stuff about "making do" is about....
 
Skyhawk,
My yacht is a 16" Prospector canoe I built myself. Yes I'm a professional man, anyone with an honest job is a professional in my books. I'm an oilfield salesman who works up to 74 hours per week. We don't bother with unions and 5 day work weeks and extensive vacation and sick days and such here. We work hard and chart our own course through life. I am taking for granted your tone was for fun (your smiley seems to indicate that contrary to your tone). If not well you know the rest.

There are hundreds of threads complaining about LEE melters and molds. Hundreds more explaining Lee-menting and beagling and lapping because of undersized bullets. This thread contains negative experiences.

I do buy my bullets and so do you. I do handload and rarely buy factory ammo unless it is rimfire.
 
Canuck Bob, I was just poking a bit of fun. It seemed you were coming across as a bit "elitist" due to you insinuating that we folks who "make do" with Lee products are somehow inferior to you. Your post was "if it's not the best, it's not good enough for me and I'm not making do. Therefor I'm not casting any bullets at all!". That's silly and to be honest rubs me the wrong way somehow. It's like saying the Mercedes SL-Class isn't the best roadster, so I'm not driving anymore until I can afford better.

I do think you're taking the Lee quality issue a bit too seriously. They sell a lot of pots and molds. While I don't have sales figures, I'm not surprised that they would have some negative reports about their products given their volumes. The good thing is that Lee is pretty good about setting things right if you do get a lemon. And getting a lemon is a lot rarer than you likely think, because the most likely folks who post about Lee products are posting when things go wrong - not when they go right. I own 2 Lee pots (one is over 20 years old as I said) and over half a dozen 6-bangers, including a fishing sinker and shot mold. I've had to deburr a couple molds (took 5 seconds per bad cavity), but they dropped perfectly after that. I think that's likely to be most people's experience.

If you want some fancy designer custom mold instead and decide you don't like your $40 6-cavity mold after producing 10,000 bullets, at least its paid for itself several times over. Meanwhile you've saved yourself some cash and learned how to cast bullets.

And yes I do pay for my bullets - the amount of electricity used while casting, the gasoline to bring the wheel weights home, and the propane to melt the WWs into ingots. Per bullet? Likely 0.01 cent. (I really don't know, or care an awful lot!)
 
I don't know about "elitest" but I do an awful lot of casting with about 200 molds on hand, none are Lee as the few I had fell apart, for serious casting flimsy is not the way to go. For pots i use RCBS bottom pour with great results and no leaks, and for ladle casting I use the Lyman, both pots have been in use for many, many years. I ladle cast for all the big, heavy BPCR bullets, and other .45 and .50 cal. bullets. Some of my equip. will never pay for itself, but in the meantime I will have quality, accurate bullets that rival jacketed for accuracy and exceed jacketed in the big calibers when used on game.
 
ben hunchak, the question is that if a Lee pot were your only option due to cost considerations, would you give up casting all together? That's the "elitist" part to me.

Other than that, obviously anyone who uses 200 casting molds is an elite in casting. Heck, I have to colour code my ammo boxes just to keep track of 4 or 5 different calibers at the range! :p

None of my Lee molds have fallen apart after 10's of thousands of bullets casted (a couple of which after more than 15 years), but perhaps I'm just lucky.
 
Lees are so problematic that if forced to use something less, I would go with a burner and small iron/steel pot and ladle, that's how I started casting over 40 years ago.
 
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