AIM 124gr RN.... NOT!!!! Range report update for 124 and 147gr... Pics

[The ROC]

Same issues with weight variations beyond what is acceptable, tooling marks visible on bullet and cost. For the quality of product and the cost of materials compared to other bullet makers I believe AIM bullets are substandard and we are being taken to the cleaners.

I bought their 147's and took a chance.... waste of money. Good for plinking or a match with a distance of 16 yards MAX.

AIM 147 spec's:
Bullet OAL - Lo 0.668" Hi 0.672" no consistancy
Dia - 0.355"
Average Weight - 148gr with a Lo 146.5gr Hi 149.4gr no consistancy

Could this be the main reason for my shot gun pattern out past 25 yards?

 

[relliott]

I bought their 147's and took a chance.... waste of money. Good for plinking or a match with a distance of 16 yards MAX.

AIM 147 spec's:
Bullet OAL - Lo 0.668" Hi 0.672" no consistancy
Dia - 0.355"
Average Weight - 148gr with a Lo 146.5gr Hi 149.4gr no consistancy

Could this be the main reason for my shot gun pattern out past 25 yards?

Doubtful. Have a look at your crimp. Pull one of the bullets and see if there is any deformation at the case mouth. If there is, you'll be stretching the jacket when firing and the bullet won't group. This will be the same with ANY plated bullet, not just AIM's. This has been the issue in 9 out of ten accuracy related complaints.

You are going to get some weight deviation in any plated bullet, especially cast/plated bullets. It's the nature of pouring molten metal. Jacketed bullets are made from wire extrusion, so weight will be uniform.

 

[The ROC]

Have a look at your crimp. Pull one of the bullets and see if there is any deformation at the case mouth.

Is this too much of a crimp? Should there be no deformation line at all for plated bullets?

My crimp set up is the same for the jacketed bullets I'm using.

 

[Canuck223]

Is this too much of a crimp? Should there be no deformation line at all for plated bullets?

My crimp set up is the same for the jacketed bullets I'm using.

Yep, too much crimp.

 

[The ROC]

Yep, too much crimp.

Should there be no deformation line at all?

 

[ciPeterF]

not that you'd see with the naked eye..

 

[Perry Wood]

That is so much crimp it looks like it was roll crimped. I would not be surprised if that bullet went down range without the ass end of the plating still on. You just have to take the bell out of the case mouth, the bullet is held firm in the sized case already.

 

[relliott]

You have way too much crimp and I guarantee that is what's causing your problem. All you need to do when crimping is straighten out the case wall so there is no bell left. Case drag will do the rest. FWIW: if you are deforming your jacketed bullets like this you might want to back off there as well. You'll get away with it more readily with jacketed vs. plated, but why push the envelope.

Also worth noting: I have tested the 147 AIM's extensively in my .38 Super @ high velocity (up to 1300 fps) and they will group better than I am capable of holding at any competition distance...and I can hold pretty well. Doesn't matter how much weight fluctuation, doesn't matter if the nose is cavitated from cold casting, doesnn't matter if the bullet is damaged on the nose, they ALL group. The important thing is the bearing surface.

This is an AET barrel with gain twist rifling. Not the most forgiving thing on plated bullets.

Just so you know.....

Edit to note: Crimp until you can just barely make out a faint impression on the bullet and then back off a hair and you will be on the money. Loaded correctly, I guarantee they will be more accurate than you are. Also; when loading plated bullets for major power factor you calculate your charge for the lightest measured bullet so you can never factor under. The small variance in weight will never be felt by the shooter and it Will. Not. Matter. at all in terms of measurable accuracy for most people. I have been shooting AIM's at Level III matches since they have been available and I have never factored anything but what I planned for and never had any problem hitting my targets. Any questions, feel free to pm me. I will be only too happy to assist.

 

[The ROC]

You have way too much crimp and I guarantee that is what's causing your problem. All you need to do when crimping is straighten out the case wall so there is no bell left.

With some Google help and patience I've reset my seater/crimp die.

Now there is no deformation line at all now. Just enough to straighten the "bell".

Hard to notice the deformation line with jacketed bullets at least not as noticable as plated.

Live and learn.

I really hope this works out regarding improved accuracy.

 

[relliott]

I really hope this works out regarding improved accuracy.

It will. I'd be willing to bet on it.
It would be interesting to see a posted update when you get some range testing done.

 

[The ROC]

It will. I'd be willing to bet on it.
It would be interesting to see a posted update when you get some range testing done.

Just loaded up 50 test rounds. Dying to go to the range now but I'll have to wait till next weekend if not Good Friday.

I will defintely post pic's good or bad. At 20, 25 and 40 yards.

If these loads turn out better than before because of over crimp then I'll have to eat my words.

 

[relliott]

Just loaded up 50 test rounds. Dying to go to the range now but I'll have to wait till next weekend if not Good Friday.

I will defintely post pic's good or bad. At 20, 25 and 40 yards.

If these loads turn out better than before because of over crimp then I'll have to eat my words.

Thanks; do please let me know how it turns out, either way. All input is appreciated and believe it or not, acted upon. Aim has had more than it's share of major hurdles to overcome in the last two years, yet in spite of all the various forms of hell they have been through they are still in business and still working to improve the product line. They are aware of QC problems and are busily implementing changes/fixes.

A substantive product update is pending soon, but I have been asked not to say anything until all is in place. I will say that a new, improved 124 grain profile is now available with longer bearing surface and better/smaller weight variance. That's all I can say for now.

Again; any and all feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

R (for AIM)

 

[HKMark23]

I got curious reading this, so I checked out power factor numbers. A 124 grain bullet @1009 fps is just over 125000, and a 122.6 grain bullet @1020 fps is just over 125000. Wouldn't a guy make sure to have a little bit of "room to breathe" built in just in case??

Excellent point, particularly since a Chrony, according to the manufacturers tech sheet. will only be reliable within +- 5 f/s at these speeds, IF the chrony has been used and stored in a low humidity environment. Thats pretty damn significant when you're measuring 11 f/s differences.

I'd give Chrony their due because of customer abuse, setup error (common) and a host of other factors that can affect these things but I've seen same batch averages taken across 2 different machines on different days vary by more like 30 f/s. OK, one experience does not a statistic make, (unless you're a liberal ), but it was what it was and I took this as a lesson not to step dance on the edge if making PF is important.

 

[MrSchultz]

I'd like to ask you pros a question - would 1.6 grams make THAT much difference in accuracy and power?

 

[The ROC]

I'd like to ask you pros a question - would 1.6 grams make THAT much difference in accuracy and power?

Were you ever into long range precision shooting? I was for 5 years...

It's a bad/good habit to break and now I'm seeing my old habits roll into action shooting reloading and shoot me first if I start to seperate all the bullets into their own weight catagory.

 

[Freedom Ventures]

Now there is no deformation line at all now. Just enough to straighten the "bell".

Check the crimp - Take one of your new bullets and put the nose against your loading bench and push. Make sure that with a fair bit of force, the bullet does not get shorter.

I've seen a bullet shoved into a case when it was the top round on a dropped mag, and then blow up a CZ. I've also seen bullets go deep when slammed into the feed ramp. A sturdy taper crimp is very important on a semi.

You may be fine, but it's worth checking this when you change crimps.

I'd like to ask you pros a question - would 1.6 grams make THAT much difference in accuracy and power?

Not so much accuracy in close range pistol, but when you're targeting a specific power factor thinking the bullet weighs one thing and comes in weighing less at the match, it could be the difference between first and less than last. (shooting for fun)

If a box says it's 124gr, it should have 124gr bullets in it.

 

[The ROC]

Thanks. I did that and no change in OAL.

 

[HKMark23]

I'd like to ask you pros a question - would 1.6 grams make THAT much difference in accuracy and power?

Over 24 grains !! I should think so !

Then again, I'm not a pro.

 

[The ROC]

Aim 124gr good.... 147gr not good.

Just came back from the range and after adjusting for a less crimp, enough to remove the bell, the Aim 147gr did even worst and with that same crimp for the BDX the grouping opened up out at 25 and 40 yards compared to my other post/thread and pictures. Oh well, looks like the AIM 147gr bullet does not go well with my Shadow, Back to my original crimp and BDX 124gr load.

All four 10 shot groups at 25 and 40 yards was shot supported/benched and slow fired.

On a good note I have to say I was very impressed with the AIM 124gr , actually 122gr, bullet as it did very very well at 15 yards shooting unsupported and standing. This is with my original crimp that I was told was way too much for plated bullets. I put all 20 rounds into a ragged hole about 1.5" in diameter with a few pulled shots. That performed better then my BDX of the same load but with a different OAL. Sorry... no picture of that one. I only had 20 rds on hand for those so I have to try them out at 25 and 40 yards next time.

 

[relliott]

Just came back from the range and after adjusting for a less crimp, enough to remove the bell, the Aim 147gr did even worst and with that same crimp for the BDX the grouping opened up out at 25 and 40 yards compared to my other post/thread and pictures. Oh well, looks like the AIM 147gr bullet does not go well with my Shadow, Back to my original crimp and BDX 124gr load.

All four 10 shot groups at 25 and 40 yards was shot supported/benched and slow fired.


On a good note I have to say I was very impressed with the AIM 124gr , actually 122gr, bullet as it did very very well at 15 yards shooting unsupported and standing. This is with my original crimp that I was told was way too much for plated bullets. I put all 20 rounds into a ragged hole about 1.5" in diameter with a few pulled shots. That performed better then my BDX of the same load but with a different OAL. Sorry... no picture of that one. I only had 20 rds on hand for those so I have to try them out at 25 and 40 yards next time.

I'm glad the 124's did well, but something isn't right here and I need to know what it is. May I ask what your oal is on the 147 grain load? If you drop-test, is there any contact between the nose of the bullet and the rifling?

You should still back off on the 124 crimp. It's too much.

Last question; do you live anywhere near the GTA?