Extrator issues?

ranger_scout

ranger_scout

Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Location
In a woods. Try to find me
My M14s has had some issues extracting the rounds fired. It has nothing to do with the scope mount as I tried it with it both on and off. Basically it extracts the first one and scratches a deep notch into the round. After this is does not pick up the next round in the magazine and kinda rests in the halfway position.

So has anyone else had this issue? Can i fix it my self as I would like to do it my self as something to do and learn more about the rifle in the process? I can take it to a gun smith (not sure where is best in London ON.), but would like some advice on this issue that I am having.

Thanks
Ranger_scout
 
Is this a new gun or did this problem just start?

Did it start after a field strip of the rifle?

Did you remove the op rod spring and guide and put the guide in upside-down? (hard to do but not impossible).

Are you sure your mag is seating fully, if your not used to a m14 they take some practice and firm pressure to overcome the op rod spring.


If not then can you try another mag?
 
@Satain
I have 4 mags. And tired with all of them and it reoccured. I can try again with only one shot in the mag i guess. But this does not test the feeding of the second shot.

@Hotwheels81
It is used of the EE. the previous owner said about 120 rnds though. It continued after a field strip of the rifle. Not sure why it was doing it and still was unsure after an interior inspection. Yea the op rod is the right way up. I know it can be confusing but had not put in upside down yet :p. Probably one day after i am really tired when shooting.
 
"...kinda rests..." What 'kinda rests'? The cartridge?
Sounds like a gas issue(short stroking) and not an extraction issue to me. First round feed ok? If so, it's not likely the mag. Sounds like the bolt doesn't get sent back far enough to pick up the next round. Clean the rifle first, then look at the gas system. Start with the gas hole. Make sure it's clear and not blocked by the flash hider assembly. Make sure the spindle valve is on all the way too. Part #25. http://stevespages.com/ipb-springfield-m1a.html
 
You can confirm short stroking by loading a mag with 5 and cycling them all out manually, if it chambers and extracts all 5 it's most likely gas system...

If it won't strip the rounds from the mag then something is stopping the mag from fully seating.

Also make sure you grease the action as per all the maintenance instructions in the forum stickys.

Out of curiosity... What type of ammo are you using and does the rifle have any aftermarket parts besides the scope mount?
 
short stroking by the sounds of it.

-check gas plug is tight
-check the slot on the spindle vavle head is vertical (side of gas system)
-use a 1/16 drill rod or allen key as a guage and with muzzle up and oprod locked back or removed, piston fully protruding, slide "guage" into hole on bottom of gas cylinder and verify it passes clear into the barrel... I've seen so many guys use shims and shimm too much, partially blocking gas flow at the port.
-take rifle out of stock, remove oprod, point muzzle up and push the piston all the way in and quickly remove finger.... should drop slow like it is under vacuum pressure, if it drops like a stone .... the piston or cylinder is pooched
- put the oprod and spring guide/spring back in with bolt removed and cycle oprod slowly by hand back and forth..... wiggle it if you can and feel for binding on the rear 2 or 3 inches of the stroke
-strip rifle, insert bolt and associated oprod parts and cyle oprod again slowly back and forth again feeling for binding or hesitations in the rearmost 2 or 3 inches of travel
- when seating the mag, engage the nose first, then rock the rear in till you observe the mag release click to verify full engagement.

any time a short stroke is suspected, only load TWO rounds into the mag as a safety precaution. some short stroke situations have causes that can lead to slam fires if not immediatly diagnosed.
 
@M14 Doc that sounds complicated and I don't want to mess er' up. I may have to get a gun smith for that as i do not have the tools my self. I am just a operator not that mechanically inclined type person.

@Hotwheels81 just did your test 2 of 4 of the mags have the issue. The other 2 are just fine. The 2 that have the issue are unmarked black with a shiny ish ting to them. Where my other 2 are grey in comparison and mat in finishing. The two fautly ones are unpinned (came like) that don't feed properly all the time and sometimes the round same one as used in the other mags does not extract. Rifle is clean and oiled not greased. I personally think oil is only an invitation to dirt so i use oil. regardless it is clean and operates smooth. The ammo is federal Gold match so quality stuff the amount I have is probably worth more than the rifle... As for accessories it only has the scope and a sling on it. All my mags (they are all 5/20) have Ranger grips on them as well. It has a USGI stock too if this even effects any thing?

@sunray Sorry guess it was not the best explanation but it is the bolt that rests halfway over the next round and when firing (not blank cyclying) it scratches into the extracted casing really deep from the neck to halfway down.

@every one - At this point I do think it is my two mags I will tinker arounds with them and see if it fixes the problem the next shoot I do. I sure hope it is not an extractor issue as that would be a problem and costly to get a gun smith. If it is the mags well that price for the gun smith can be put to new mags. I need two more so not like buying another two if this is the issue is out of my way. Thanks for the quick replies to every one so far.
 
ranger_scout said:
@M14 Doc that sounds complicated and I don't want to mess er' up.
Click to expand...

Ranger, Sounds complicated but isn't. Really. :)

Your location doesn't give us much info but any chance you are near a clinic? If you can get the rifle to a clinic all this can be demonstrated and it won't cost you much since the clinics are generally either free or by donation to pay for the classroom.

Otherwise you might check with Hungry or M14Doctor to see if you could ship it to one of them. I know M14Doctor has a pretty reasonable fee to completely strip and inspect your rifle and do some basic tuning.
 
He he I was signed up for a clinic in my city (I don't have a car so I can't get out of city). Would have been perfect but work came up that weekend. I bought the rifle used and think it already went through a clinic but that is only an assumption. Their is a small hole at the front of the part that touches the gas. Is this what I am checking? I saw drill and was not for drilling into my rifle. But it is only to gauge gas flow. I think I know what is being mentioned now i will strip er' down and check.

Okay stripped it down and checked. It has that vacuum like seal and does not drop right away. The two 1/16 holes I found (not sure if it was the right one...) Both along the gas system where clear of any obstructions and the 1/16th drill bit (surprised I have one) fit right threw. I reassembled and cycled the op rod and did feel the last 2-3 inch slightly more strenuous. Thanks M14 doc you saved me money that I need for mags. Also thanks powmia56 for conniving me to do it. As i said That drill word and on my rifle turned me off.

So in conclusion to any one who has the same issue shotty no name ####ty looking mags are not good!
 
Last edited:
ranger_scout said:
He he I was signed up for a clinic in my city (I don't have a car so I can't get out of city). Would have been perfect but work came up that weekend. I bought the rifle used and think it already went through a clinic but that is only an assumption. Their is a small hole at the front of the part that touches the gas. Is this what I am checking? I saw drill and was not for drilling into my rifle. But it is only to gauge gas flow. I think I know what is being mentioned now i will strip er' down and check.

Okay stripped it down and checked. It has that vacuum like seal and does not drop right away. The two 1/16 holes I found (not sure if it was the right one...) Both along the gas system where clear of any obstructions and the 1/16th drill bit (surprised I have one) fit right threw. I reassembled and cycled the op rod and did feel the last 2-3 inch slightly more strenuous. Thanks M14 doc you saved me money that I need for mags. Also thanks powmia56 for conniving me to do it. As i said That drill word and on my rifle turned me off.

So in conclusion to any one who has the same issue shotty no name s**tty looking mags are not good!
Click to expand...



this community here is all about helping new m14 owners help themselves :D
there are those of us who will gladly take your money to solve issues with your rifle hehehe but for the most part, tuning and maintaining these rifles is pretty easy with not many tools..... not much work space..... and a whole lotta curiosity.... and of course, the forum here on CGN.

i notice you mention 2 , 1/16 holes on your gas system.....
there should only be one hole visible on the gas system when it is assembled on the rifle. this hole is on the bottom surface, mid section. this is the pressure bleed off hole and with spindle valve (slot screw head on right side of gas cylinder, retaining pin on left side) in the vertical position, a 1/16 drill rod should pass thru to the inside of the barrel.
there should be no other open hole..... piston hole but that is plugged by the piston ;)
do you have a way to post a pic of your gas assembly ..... this second hole thing has me stumped.
I did have a client with a rifle that gave him grief from day one. he bought in from lever arms back with the original batches of these rifles. It never worked for him and he stuck it wayyyyy back in the safe for years. I got it a few months ago and right off the bat noticed the spindle valve was missing entirely, leaving a hole, clear thru the gas system from one side to the other. Not being familiar with the rifle he never realized that it was not supposed to be like that hehehehe. I installed a springfield spindle valve kit from brownells and she worked just fine from then on :D
 
I had this issue Friday, failed to extract 3 out of 20 with last one stuck in chamber, took skin of my fingers as I tried to cycle the round out. I took rifle apart and cleaned but noticed the op rod guide is now very loose, can I just knock pin out and replace, if so where do I get a replacement?
 
Yea I dont think it was part of the gas system but I gave every thing 1/16ish in size a poke to ensure I got the right hole. But the one you just described was the first one I poked. The other one is not actually a whole :redface: but is about an inch in on the bottom side near the gas plug.
 
f55 said:
I had this issue Friday, failed to extract 3 out of 20 with last one stuck in chamber, took skin of my fingers as I tried to cycle the round out. I took rifle apart and cleaned but noticed the op rod guide is now very loose, can I just knock pin out and replace, if so where do I get a replacement?
Click to expand...

easy fix and part of what we recommend at the clinics as a basic upgrade "tweak" .
remove the oprod guide, clean the barrel location and inside the oprod guide ring of any oils. get a 1/8 x 3/4" roll pin or drill rod (hardware store) and if you have red loctite that's handy too.

first , with oprod guide removed, or slid forward on barrel (wrap some masking tape around barrel to prevent parts scratching finish.
if you are brave and a little adventurous hehehe, use a small center punch and a hammer and firmly but not to hard, make a row of punches close to the edges of the pin recess on the barrel, 3 or 4 each side of the slot to move some metal and make the slot tighter when the pin goes in.
a more advanced technique is to form lengthwise rows of 4 punch marks, uniformly around the barrels oprod guide location surface, raising the overall diamerter slightly.

regardless, apply loctite to the slot and barrel surface and slide oprod guide back in place. dab of locktite into pin hole and drive the pin in.

then with gas assembly in place and oprod, guide rod and spring in place ..... observe the alignment between oprod tube end and gas piston. you want the oprod guide to hold the oprod in alignment with the piston itself , center of piston to center of oprod tube. use rubber mallet or wood block to move oprod guide accordingly for optimum alignment.
do not cylcle action hard during the process and allow the loctite to fully cure prior to use.

if you perform the above mod and you find that the oprod becomes tight in the receiver track where it wasn't before...... you will need to have your barrel index checked.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom