458 hang fire !

irniff

irniff

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Firs time this happen to me , a hang fire a little delay after firering pin hamer the primer
i am reloading for 4 years never seen this situation

I was using my recepe imr 4227 42. gr. 485 gr . w. wt.

primer win. large rifle

I pull the bullet out and check the quant. of powder , O K.

humm... is it possible bads primers

ps. I will use this powder in a diff. load to see if it is the powder causing the problem

I will appreciate help from ours experience reloaders
 
Most often people will say "you got oil on the primer", but the most common reason is too light a load. In this case your load is mild, but should be ok, so I'd look elsewhere.
 
I think the load is too light. What grain bullet are you using?
Most big cartridges recommend near max loads.....or you get hang fires....
 
Are you truly getting a hang fire -click followed by a delayed boom or a failure to fire - click followed by no boom, Reason I ask is you said you pulled the bullet to check the powder.

First things to check, are you leaving cleaning media in the flash hole after you tumble the brass - single most common cause. Is the primer from a new box and batch, if they are and you are now getting hang or fail to fire, I would suspect the primers. Try a different batch or make, and with these lighter loads, magnum primers aren't a bad idea.
If it isn't either of those two then the only other thing it can be is the powder. If it is the powder starting to go bad, and the primer has ignited then the powder should pour out in clumpy patially burnt chunks, If this is your problem, the powder is either too old or has gone off. If it has an acid like odour in the can, pour it on the lawn as fertilizer. Even without an acid smell, powder can be off. Ammo is pretty simple. Spark and powder are the only things that make it go boom.
 
So i just checked my books, and for a 458 Win mag, 485 grain bullet, most of the powders listed are in the 70 grain range to start. So you say you were using 42 grains - which is a reduced load. So the case will only be about 1/2 full of powder - which causes it to "fill the case horizontally" when chambered in the rifle on the bench, leaving air above it and not fully cover the primer with powder...and most books recommend a little bit of stuffing be used to keep the powder against the primer for such reduced loads. So if you are getting "click...............boom" this is likely the cause. And the book recommends NOT to use reduced loads for this reason

You could also try using a magnum primer vs a standard primer

If you are getting "click................................." then as Dean said that is a different problem.
 
Join the club, if you do this long enough you will experience a dud. Probably nothing wrong unless this happens often. I think you did not experience a "hang fire" as the bullet never left the case.
 
I am taking the cecommends loads in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook

for a 485 gr. they recommend load from 41.0 gr. to 47.0 gr.

they are cast bullet with gaz check

I had hang fire but the bullet came out the barrel and I think the recoil was ok for this load and the bullet went where it was suppose to be on the target at 100 yds

only that there were a delay after activating the trigger

I will be more carefull with the primer pocket make sure there is no dust in the case

also I was using the same powder imr 4227 from a different batch number in my Savage ml 10 and I had hang fire again , I was told at the shooting range by some others shooters that the imr 4227 was a little bit harder to ignighte compare to some others powders

is it possible this powder as a bad reputation to be hard to ignighte I will switch to ALLIANT 2400 it always give me no problems

I read in previous thread that using filler inside the case was causing some problems

accumulation of residu coming from the syny. material

I like to read all the thread on this site they are very interesting ,

thank you for your support
 
Irniff, another possiblity is case lube contaminating the primer. I had this happen once when I was in a rush to load up some 30-06 ammo.
I've since now keep prepped brass on hand.
So freshly resized brass goes right back into the tumbler to remove any oily/greasy residual case lube now.

maybe......

Edit: This often causes totally dead primers, and not hangfires.
 
I am using CRISCO for case lube sound funny, it work nice!

I put the tip of my finger in the little container with Crisco and i rub togetther my 2 fingers by the heat of my fingers it melt

I take the case between my 2 fingers and rotate I only lube one on 3 or 4

it is very easy to go on the press no effort

I return the case in the media after reseise those case
 
Leave the Crisco for baking pies............:rockOn:

Do yourself a favour and buy a tin of Imperial Sizing wax and don't look back!

A little dacron filler (.5 grain) on top of the powder and you'll get more consistant ignition, no more hang fires.
 
irniff said:
I am taking the cecommends loads in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook

for a 485 gr. they recommend load from 41.0 gr. to 47.0 gr.

they are cast bullet with gaz check

I had hang fire but the bullet came out the barrel and I think the recoil was ok for this load and the bullet went where it was suppose to be on the target at 100 yds

only that there were a delay after activating the trigger

I will be more carefull with the primer pocket make sure there is no dust in the case

also I was using the same powder imr 4227 from a different batch number in my Savage ml 10 and I had hang fire again , I was told at the shooting range by some others shooters that the imr 4227 was a little bit harder to ignighte compare to some others powders

is it possible this powder as a bad reputation to be hard to ignighte I will switch to ALLIANT 2400 it always give me no problems

I read in previous thread that using filler inside the case was causing some problems

accumulation of residu coming from the syny. material

I like to read all the thread on this site they are very interesting ,

thank you for your support
Click to expand...

I am reluctant to suggest that there's anything wrong with IMR or H4227, but I no longer use it for anything but near max loads - too many hangfires with reduced loads. Same with WC-735 - only near max and magnum primers for it.
 
If you want to laod light loads for the 458 a 70% load of 4895, or using Trail Boss are both far better choices than 4227. Hogdon doesn't even list 4227 for the 458.
 
Dean I am sorry to tell you that the load of 4227 is in the Lyman cast bullet handbook 3 th edition , at page 238

I will never reload ammunition if it is not in the book

I will follow the recommendations mentionned previousely

I will go back to my old recepe

thank and happy shooting
 
No need to be sorry, there are lots of load books out there and many different recipes. I tend to favour the powder sellers sites but like you, use many other sources too. I was not criticizing I was merely agreeing with you and other posters that 4227 is not, in my opinion, the best powder to be down loading with. All the best, hope you get it to work out.
 
I've been doing a lot of reading on the 458 Lott and seriously looking at getting a Ruger no1 in one. These cases take reduced loads extremely well to the point where one article I was reading a guy was using cast round balls and 9 grains of powder with no issues for small game and plinking etc.

I wouldn't worry too much and move on with life and start worrying if it happens more than a few times.
 
FTF can have many causes as previously addressed. A true hang-fire can make life very interesting. Kevin Robertson had one with his 505 Gibbs. He couldn't wait to use it and went otu to shoot an old blind cow on his ranch in Zimbabwe. Click, no bang. Took the rifle off his shoulder and lowered it. Bang. Rifle hit him in the chest and knocked him clean out (impressive given what a mountain this guy is). When he awoke the cow was gone, the dry grass of the ranch was ablaze and he had to scramble to get out of there without losing his truck. Took some doing to get the fire out, as I recall.

Hang fire....very, very unpleasant.
 
Bigbubba said:
So i just checked my books, and for a 458 Win mag, 485 grain bullet, most of the powders listed are in the 70 grain range to start. So you say you were using 42 grains - which is a reduced load. So the case will only be about 1/2 full of powder - which causes it to "fill the case horizontally" when chambered in the rifle on the bench, leaving air above it and not fully cover the primer with powder...and most books recommend a little bit of stuffing be used to keep the powder against the primer for such reduced loads. So if you are getting "click...............boom" this is likely the cause. And the book recommends NOT to use reduced loads for this reason

You could also try using a magnum primer vs a standard primer

If you are getting "click................................." then as Dean said that is a different problem.
Click to expand...

There's also the very real danger of getting detonation with grossly reduced loads of medium to slow burning rate powders in big volume cases (which is the 458 definition).
This can completely destroy the rifle and harm/maim/kill the shooter.
PP.
 
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