.223 vs deer?

[KodiakHntr]

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5067683/4

scenarshooter has documented a few .224" bullet kills over the years.....A quick glance shows deer, mountain goats, bears, elk, to name a few critters.......

 

[scottm]

.223 ? Only if you have the right ammo available to you .

If you reload take a look at the Barnes TSX in .224 .

Obviouly there are a lot of better choices but a lot deer have dropped from 22 centerfires in the past.

Look if you don't reload as well. Barnes VOR-TX 55gr TSX:

http://w ww.barnesbullets.com/products/barnes-vor-tx-ammunition/

Picked up 4 boxes last November at a big box sporting goods store in Langley.

 

[TheCoachZed]

There's lots of other stuff besides that Barnes out there. I bought Federal Fusion for my .223 last year, but didn't get a chance to use it, because I used buckshot (another round that "doesn't have enough power.")

Winchester makes a 64 grain Power Point round that's well-respected for deer. I think Federal has a 60 grain Nosler round as well? Not sure.

In any case, that Fusion stuff was discounted heavily by Federal last year. Not sure if the deal is still on.

 

[Gatehouse]

I see the smilie but it is a fair question.

The extra weight of that a 100 gr bullet has over a 55 or 62 gr bullet, if you
hit a rib or leg or your shot is not optimal (like a long quartering shot).

If the bullet expands and completely penetrates the lungs and chest cavity, ribs and all, like a TSX bullet from a .223 will do, then what does that extra bullet weight do?

You need to work within the parameters of any cartridge/bullet combo, so I would say that long distance quartering shots are probably not a good idea with a .223, but they probably aren't a great idea with lots of cartridge/bullet combos.

 

[KodiakHntr]

If the bullet expands and completely penetrates the lungs and chest cavity, ribs and all, like a TSX bullet from a .223 will do, then what does that extra bullet weight do?

You need to work within the parameters of any cartridge/bullet combo, so I would say that long distance quartering shots are probably not a good idea with a .223, but they probably aren't a great idea with lots of cartridge/bullet combos.

How dare you bring logic into an emotional argument?....(grin)

 

[Redfrog]

Your opinion on the 22 carries as much weight as when you say the .223 is a good deer round.

Now you are caveman pointy stick expert too.
Better go get the muck out boots on, you are laying it on pretty thick.

Where can I read something credible on these culls of yours?

It seems your opinion is opposite mine. So you think the 22lr is adequate but the .223 is not? Interesting.

I never claimed to be an expert at anything. However I have been there done that and even have the Tshirt but I just checked and no muck boots. Sorry.

How many deer have you ever shot with your .22lr and how many have you shot with a .223? How about telling us what caliber you use for deer?

 

[red-eye]

OP:

If you go to the gun store and ask for a "deer rifle", they don't usually hand you a .223.

If you go to the federal ammo site and look for a good "deer calibre", there are only 2 listed
for .223 and those are only for minimum "standard deer". "Trophy buck" and larger the .223 is not recommended.

So, although you can shoot a deer with anything, most experts would not recommend a .223.

 

[Gatehouse]

OP:

If you go to the gun store and ask for a "deer rifle", they don't usually hand you a .223.

If you go to the federal ammo site and look for a good "deer calibre", there are only 2 listed
for .223 and those are only for minimum "standard deer". "Trophy buck" and larger the .223 is not recommended.

So, although you can shoot a deer with anything, most experts would not recommend a .223.

You go to most gun stores and ask for a deer rifle they hand you a 300 magnum. Some expert....

 

[Dukester]

It seems your opinion is opposite mine. So you think the 22lr is adequate but the .223 is not? Interesting.

I never claimed to be an expert at anything. However I have been there done that and even have the Tshirt but I just checked and no muck boots. Sorry.

How many deer have you ever shot with your .22lr and how many have you shot with a .223? How about telling us what caliber you use for deer?

Head shots only, in very specific circumstances - the 22lr is fine. I have euthanized several animals that weighed over a thousand pounds with a .22.
General hunting is much more demanding than culls or euthanizing.

Unless it was a survival situation I would never shoot at anything other than varmints or small game with either .22.

I use a Ruger UL in .243 and a Rem 700 in .300 Win. I bought the 700 because I wanted an accurate rifle that would do me for both deer and moose. And a friends was selling it cheap, and it included everything I needed to handload for it. I load 150gr bthp to 3100 fps, and that has proven to be good deer medicine, and I have yet to go moose hunting.

Most of the 40 plus deer I have shot have been .270 or 12 gauge slug.

I know absolutely that a .223 will kill a deer if conditions are right, but to recommend it as a general deer round is, in my opinion, irresponsible if not malicious.

( And I am guessing I have 5000 plus rounds under my belt of .223, in the Mini 14 and AC556 ).

 

[Redfrog]

Dukester, thanks, that's about what I figured.

Way out west here in Canada we don't consider tying a cow up and shooting it to be hunting. I must apologize for assuming we were talking about hunting situations. Easy enough to do I guess since this is the HUNTING forum and all the other posts were talking about HUNTING situations.
Of course I realize how foolish it would look if you beat the drum for the .22 as a deer cartridge if you didn't change course in midstream.

By survival situation do you mean like when you are lost and you've eaten all your trail mix and now a bear is advancing on your position? Is that when you whip out the .22? Cause if it is, here's a word to the wise. Get a short piece of rope and tie yourself down. In the excitement you wouldn't want to miss. You may only get one kill shot and you wouldn't want to still be alive when the bear arrived.

I see you have quite an arsenal there. I'd be concerned if someone, especially a friend sold me an accurate rifle for cheap. Usually those are the ones that command a higher price. I'm sure the 300 mag will work for deer, since you've used the .22 for much larger animals. You may have to work on the flinch but even is you get the shot in the general area the deer should drop.

BTW I shot 40 plus deer during the cull shoot. All with the .223.

The 5000 rounds from a mini 14 will certainly qualify you as both marksman/sniper and big game hunter, depending on the circles you move in. Excellent choice for a deer rifle.
The circle comment was not intended as a poke about you getting lost and wandering in circles eating your trail mix.

 

[Dukester]

Lotta meat in that response.

All bs, no substance. At least you arent giving more bad advice in it, just blowhard bragging. oops, this is way more reply than you deserve.

 

[Redfrog]

AW! now your pouting. Are you looking for the little guy stamping his feet?

 

[KodiakHntr]

OP:

If you go to the gun store and ask for a "deer rifle", they don't usually hand you a .223.

If you go to the federal ammo site and look for a good "deer calibre", there are only 2 listed
for .223 and those are only for minimum "standard deer". "Trophy buck" and larger the .223 is not recommended.

So, although you can shoot a deer with anything, most experts would not recommend a .223.

If you walk into a gunstore and ask for a "deer rifle" they are going to hand you whatever they haven't been able to sell to anyone else.....

And I'm pretty sure I'm going to let personal experience and knowledge drive my bullet choices, not Federal's potentially Non-Shooting Marketing Team.

And what would constitute an "expert" in your opinion?

 

[KodiakHntr]

Your opinion on the 22 carries as much weight as when you say the .223 is a good deer round.

Now you are caveman pointy stick expert too.
Better go get the muck out boots on, you are laying it on pretty thick.

Where can I read something credible on these culls of yours?

You seem to have some pretty strong opinions on what is the minimum required for a deer....Why is that?

You have some experiences you'd like to share, or are you just guessing?

In case you missed it the first time.........

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Should we not be picky on every shot we take and let the risky ones go?

It's the hunters markmanship that ensures clean kills not size of the cartrdige being used.

If you are willing to be picky on your shots, not willing to take risky shots, a 223 is plenty for deer.

 

[Camp Cook]

and when Murphy pops his head out more than not the 223 should not be promoted for deer even coyotes are to big for it when things don't go right.

CC

 

[Starscream]

I see the smilie but it is a fair question.

The extra weight of that a 100 gr bullet has over a 55 or 62 gr bullet, if you
hit a rib or leg or your shot is not optimal (like a long quartering shot).

...I'm no hunter but... why are you taking the shot at all if it's not as close to optimal as you can get, regardless of caliber?

 

[Redfrog]

...I'm no hunter but... why are you taking the shot at all if it's not as close to optimal as you can get, regardless of caliber?

I was surprised that even with not being a hunter you 'get it' but then I saw you were from Alberta, where common sense is still common.

 

[red-eye]

Too funny.

I am not sure who to consider an expert then, if it is not the people that
make the ammo or the people that make the guns or the people who sell
the guns....because they classify the .223 as a varmint calibre.

Maybe I will try it then....as long as I can keep my shot placement in the lungs and
between the ribs.

 

[Dukester]

Too funny.

I am not sure who to consider an expert then, if it is not the people that
make the ammo or the people that make the guns or the people who sell
the guns....because they classify the .223 as a varmint calibre.

Maybe I will try it then....as long as I can keep my shot placement in the lungs and
between the ribs.

And you deserve what you get when the Big Lad is standing out 250 quartering away.