Import a muzzleloader from US

vinbo7

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Hi all,
I know it's difficult to import a rifle from the US because you need to find an FFL with an export permit. What about for muzzleloaders? Foreign affairs Canada says they are not export controlled by the US, but I read somewhere that the newer muzzleloaders are. Does anyone have experience with this?

If the muzzleloader isn't export controlled by the US, then I'm supposing that all I would have to do is purchase the muzzleloader in the US, call the CFO in Canada and have it registered in my name and the paperwork faxed to me, and show up at the border.
 
Answering my own question...

Here's what my research has turned up ... I thought it might be useful for others who are interested.

Canada's law - non-restricted, so you can call CFC and get it registed (and verified) or do it on-line- all while in the US. Show up at border with printed registration certificate. Easy!
Sources used: called CFC and CBSA, also see:

http://www.international.gc.ca/controls-controles/firearms_armes_a_feu/other-autres/index.aspx

Q1 states that muzzleloaders are not export controlled by the USA. This is Canada quoting US law, however, and I wanted to verify this. Good thing I did, because it's not completely true.

US Law - This is a great link I found at the US Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) :

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2005-02.pdf

See page 2 "Muzzleoafing Firearms" for great clarification on what muzzleloaders are exempt from the Gun Control Act (GCA), so wouldn't be export controlled federally. Here it is:

MUZZLE LOADING FIREARMS
We frequently receive questions concerning the sale
of modern in-line muzzle loading rifles. Several
years ago ATF determined that an in-line muzzle
loading rifle using #209 shotgun primers for
ignition was not an antique firearm and was subject
to all provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA).
However, the GCA was amended in 1998 and
many in-line muzzle loading rifles are now antique
firearms and are excluded from the provisions of
the GCA.

As defined in section 921(a)(16) of Title 18, U.S.C.
the term “antique firearm” means –

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a
matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or
similar type of ignition system)
manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in
subparagraph (A) if such replica —
(i)is not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed
ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire
fixed ammunition which is no longer
manufactured in the United States and which
is not readily available in the ordinary channels
of commercial trade; or

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading
shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is
designed to use black powder, or a black
powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed
ammunition. For purposes of this
subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall
not include any weapon which incorporates a
firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is
converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any
muzzle loading weapon which can be readily
converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing
the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any
combination thereof.

Many modern in-line muzzleloaders including those
that use #209 shotgun primers for ignition now meet
the definition of “antique firearm” and are excluded
from the provisions of the GCA. However, there are
some muzzleloaders that are still firearms subject to
GCA controls. For example, firearms which can be
switched from muzzleloaders to breechloaders by
exchanging the barrel are still GCA firearms. In
addition, a modern firearm that is altered to function as
a muzzleloader is still a firearm.

The following are some examples of muzzleloaders
that are still GCA firearms:

Thompson Center G2 Contender 209-45
Thompson Center Encore 209-50
The H&R 1871 Huntsman
Rossi S50
Mauser 98 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
Remington 870 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
Mossberg 500 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel

Although antique firearms are not subject to GCA
controls, dealers should be aware that ammunition,
including shotgun primers, is still subject to GCA
controls. Persons who are otherwise prohibited from
possessing firearms may purchase and possess antique
firearms; however, such persons are still prohibited
from possessing and receiving ammunition, including
shotgun primers, as provided in sections 922(g) and (n)
of the GCA respectively. Such persons may possess
ammunition for antique firearms such as percussion
caps, minie balls, and 50 pounds or less of black
powder for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.

Antique firearms are still subject to whatever State laws
and local ordinances may apply.​

A definition I looked up that was helpful for me was "fixed ammunition", which according to the DOD and NATO is "Ammuntion in which the cartridge case is permanently attached to the projectile"

My interpretation of all of this is that most muzzleloaders (regarless of manufacture date) are considered to be an "antique firearm" and excluded from GCA law, as long as they are not easily convertible to fire fixed ammunition, and haven't been firearms that have been converted from fixed ammo firing to muzzleloaders (ie. as in the list above, a Remington 870 shotgun with a muzzleloading barrel stock onto it).

So as long as I pay attention to what muzzleloader I'm purchasing, I should be able to legally purchase and take posession of it in the US, and be able to register it with the CFC and bring it across the border.

As a bonus, I also found (from above quote from ATF) that in the US I "may possess ammunition for antique firearms such as percussion caps, minie balls, and 50 pounds or less of black powder for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes."

Coming into Canada I can bring (as long as I'm not exceeding US law):
• small-arms, sporting ammunition, up to a maximum of 5,000 rounds;
• primers, up to a quantity of 5,000;
• empty primed cartridge cases, up to a quantity of 5,000; and
• propellants, smokeless powder in containers not exceeding 4 kilograms and black powder in containers not exceeding 500 grams, up to a maximum total combined quantity of 8 kilograms, (17.66 pounds).​

I got this under the heading "Ammunition" from
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html#P011

So if I abide by both Canada and US laws there, I'm all clear.

One thing I am still confused about is this, from the long US quote ablove it stated I would not be able to purchase shotgun primers in the US, but I could purchase percussion caps. Where does a 209 primer fit into that?

If anyone see any flaws to my thinking - let me know! But hey, you can't blame a guy for trying to do it the right way! I sure can see why so many people just don't bother with buying something in the US.;)
 
Might clarify things:

Shotguns are controlled by a different group than rifles/pistols. Hence different rules for shotguns and their parts/ammo

Canada permits you to enter with X stuff such as powder and brass etc, but the USA doesn't necessarily allow you to POSSESS it in the states, or allow others to buy it and remain in possession of it to the border... I think... though I may come up with a different interpretation if I can ever find their laws.
 
This quote from the policy newsletter (for FFLs)I posted above (link is there to the pdf) shows that you can possess powder, percussion caps and minie balls in the US legally.

"Persons who are otherwise prohibited from
possessing firearms may purchase and possess antique
firearms; however, such persons are still prohibited
from possessing and receiving ammunition, including
shotgun primers, as provided in sections 922(g) and (n)
of the GCA respectively. Such persons may possess
ammunition for antique firearms such as percussion
caps, minie balls, and 50 pounds or less of black
powder for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.
"
 
The question was about importing a muzzle loading rifle from the USA. I recently imported a CVA "Kodiak" in line muzzle loader. I spoke to US Customs before the purchase. I also purchased it and then left it at the shop in the US while I applied for the registration certificate. I received the Reg. Cert. drove to the US, picked up the rifle and returned. I wasn't even asked at Canada Customs if they could see it. Their only concern was collecting HST. By the way....I paid $250.00 less for it than what my local stores wanted.
 
I paid $250.00 less for it than what my local stores wanted.
Yeah, that's why I was looking into it. The CFC told me you can actually just apply for the reg cert on-line while still in the US (said you would probably have to call the 1-800 number to get it verified), that likely a reg number would be issued immediately, and then I could just print it off to have ready at the border. That way you wouldn't have to leave the gun in th US and return home to Canada to register it. Saves a trip!
 
Same as Dantforth,

It take some time but it's an easy process.
Custom did not care about the gun, it's all about tax...

If this can help:

First verify that the ML you want to import does not fall under the Gun Control Act.
By calling Firearms Technology Branch at (202) 927-7910.
EX: Savage 10ml fall under Gun Control Act but not the Savage 10ml-II

Apply to International Trade Canada (ITCan) for an International Import Certificate (IIC) by calling (613) 996-2387 Once completed, the form should be returned to ITCan for processing and certification. Expect this process to take 2-3 weeks.

Pre-register the firearm through the Canada Firearms Centre. Pre-registration allows the importer to clear the firearm through the Canada Border Service Agency without any undue delay.

You can use Kinec and find the closes US transport brocker from you.
This will give you a US adress.

Make sure the state you will ship the gun is a non restricted state.

Drive into US, pick-up your gun and declare it to custom.

Done deal.
 
I found that in US (may change from state to state) some ML are not clacified as ML or antique. Like I said the Savage 10ml first generation required a FFL. I fond a list on US gouv site I will try to find it again and post the link.
 
Just finished doing this myself. As everyone said, basically all you have to do is get it pre-registered before picking it up (serial number, barrel length, make, model, etc.). The only ML that are illegal (on the US side) to export are ones that can have barrels readily exchanged to fire centrefire cartridges.
 
Exactly as you said it. All of the links that I posted at the top of this thead have the spots where you can verify this to be true in American law.
 
its not that hard importing a non-restricted guns at all my uncle has done it with a few (new made cap locks and in-lines are non-restricted) flintlocks noare easy no matter how old even the US cabela's(dont like to send any gun stuff here) will send a flintlock here now

i think that side locks(cap and flinters) should be antique classed inlines have a frame and most can have a barrel put on them to make a cartridge(ive seen a few) gun so no antique class but not going to happen

i still love how thay put a sticker on the breech plug of a cap lock lol ive gotten fed up with the one i had and stamped the number in
 
This quote from the policy newsletter (for FFLs)I posted above (link is there to the pdf) shows that you can possess powder, percussion caps and minie balls in the US legally.

"Persons who are otherwise prohibited from
possessing firearms may purchase and possess antique
firearms; however, such persons are still prohibited
from possessing and receiving ammunition, including
shotgun primers, as provided in sections 922(g) and (n)
of the GCA respectively. Such persons may possess
ammunition for antique firearms such as percussion
caps, minie balls, and 50 pounds or less of black
powder for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.
"

That policy is stupid, people have a God given right to own weapons.
 
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