A Discussion on Space Gun issue in Service Rifle Matches

No doubt as currently produced, they have major flaws just as you have pointed out. I am not going to question you on that.

But the same thing was very likely said by many when auto loading rifles were first tried, and again with the idea of optical sights.

Both are pretty much standard issued now right?

Eventually said wonder scope will probably be developed to the point that weight is reduced and battery life is a non-issue. Then it will be widely fielded.

Then of course you will have civilian shooters like me who feel they need them on known distance ranges (cause who wants to figure our drop charts) and even for CQB distances:D
 
Something I would like to point out would be the fact that the CF members competing with issue kit (including the Elcans) and issue ammo scored very well at NSCC last year. LFWA shooters won a lot of the fire and movement matches, and as I recall, the falling plates matches. This would seem to indicate that marksmanship and physical fitness play more of a role in these competitions than a "Space Gun" that may group a little tighter than the issue rifle on the next firing point.

Where the CF shooters were at an equipment disadvantage were in the pistol events due to stoppages with the Brownings. So as long as you have good marksmanship skills, a reliable firearm, (IAs cost me a pistol shoot-off and scores with service rifle) and have good physical fitness, then there is no reason why you should not be competitive with an issue service weapon.

Aaron Grubin
 
It is painful to watch good shooters, strong competitors, struggling to clear stoppages when the clock is running, the stoppages being entirely the fault of the equipment issued.
 
Bolivar said:
Eventually said wonder scope will probably be developed to the point that weight is reduced and battery life is a non-issue. Then it will be widely fielded.
Click to expand...

And true marksmanship skill will take another beating.Instead of actually learning how to shoot straight eventually the rifle and optic will do it all for you.:bangHead:
 
When 12 MP platoon received the sig225, we gave all (minus one) of our BHPs to 39CBG. Some of these were brand new out of war stock. LFWA should have no problem fielding decent BHPs. Maybe new mags are in order...

/tangent
 
Remember an optical sight is still only a way to align the bore with your sighting plane.Optics are clearer and quicker for most at long range. If I had to make it work without QM stores or warranty work i'd pick iron sights.I'm thinking next year we get a retro irons match in the BCRA match schedule somehow. That's not a challenge.
 
Miraclejoe said:
When 12 MP platoon received the sig225, we gave all (minus one) of our BHPs to 39CBG. Some of these were brand new out of war stock. LFWA should have no problem fielding decent BHPs. Maybe new mags are in order...

/tangent
Click to expand...

And that right there is the line I get from weapons techs. "They are brand new, they will work". People can't seem to get their heads around the fact that springs deteriorate over time. Now if our weapons techs stripped and replaced all the springs including the extractor with new (as in made in the last few years) springs we might see a reliability improvement. This is why we have cure dates for parts that deteriorate over time, like valves, seals and SPRINGS but what do I know I just work on multi million dollar weapons systems.

Greased, in a box, weapons and parts still turn to garbage.
 
It is my impression, based on observations at NSCC, that close to 50% of the CF competitors shooting BHPs experience stoppages in the course of the matches. The brand new MecGar magazines help. Now some of the issue BHPs do run like a clock. But many don't. Many competitors don't have much to choose from when selecting a pistol for competition. Last year one cracked a barrel during a match. In 1935, the BHP was state of the art. The youngest Inglis Brownings are now 66 years old, as are the JI magazines. I know that I feel my age, and I think the Brownings do too.
The space gun discussion can also be applied to the pistols used in competition. There are differences in equipment quality that can make a difference to the best shooters - the ones looking for a spot in the winners circle. For most competitors, a reliable service grade pistol will allow them to be competitive, within the limits of their skill. But just as there rifles which are inherently more accurate than the run of the mill, so there are pistols which excel.
 
tiriaq said:
The space gun discussion can also be applied to the pistols used in competition. There are differences in equipment quality that can make a difference to the best shooters - the ones looking for a spot in the winners circle. For most competitors, a reliable service grade pistol will allow them to be competitive, within the limits of their skill. But just as there rifles which are inherently more accurate than the run of the mill, so there are pistols which excel.
Click to expand...

I would say this is a bigger factor with pistols for sure.

Guys running BHPs with issue mags should consider getting some Mecgars...
 
I have been shooting SR for a couple of years and have always been using my Armalite 16" AR-15 with an Elcan stock, as it, no mod...my score goes from 450 (back in the old match) to finally winning something (never pass 3rd place) now...I guess that if you train yourselves enough you could win in SR no matter what kind of weapon you are using...never blame your weapon when you shoot like ####...just remember your weapon always shoot better then you...
 
An experienced, well trained shooter will shoot to the limit of his equipment; reach a plateau, so to speak. Upgrade the rifle and sight, and the scores should improve.
A shooter who is intent on competing and is working to actually win matches doesn't need to struggle with a rifle that is not up to the job. The rifle and sight must be capable of shooting clean in all matches.
It would be entirely possible to use a stock M4gery and have a lot of fun.
It really depends on what someone wants to get out of the experience.
 
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