You are simply looking at it from a functional point of view. As far as how they work, they are not a a $3000.00 gun. However there are MANY firearms in Canada that are not "functionally" worth what we pay for them! What about a Colt 6920 or 6940? What about an Armalite AR 180-B? The list could go on and on! In my humble opinion the Valmet's are worth 3G before the Colt is, simply because it is a much rarer firearm. From the figures I have seen (and someone correct me if I am wrong) there are only 42 Valmet Hunters in Canada. Low production, high quality firearm, that is based on something that most of us otherwise can not have. I don't see the asking prices as being that unreasonable.
Valmet hunters
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
You are simply looking at it from a functional point of view. As far as how they work, they are not a a $3000.00 gun. However there are MANY firearms in Canada that are not "functionally" worth what we pay for them! What about a Colt 6920 or 6940? What about an Armalite AR 180-B? The list could go on and on! In my humble opinion the Valmet's are worth 3G before the Colt is, simply because it is a much rarer firearm. From the figures I have seen (and someone correct me if I am wrong) there are only 42 Valmet Hunters in Canada. Low production, high quality firearm, that is based on something that most of us otherwise can not have. I don't see the asking prices as being that unreasonable.
Dont forget, Hunter is basically an M76 dressed in sporting furniture with a slightly longer barrel. Change out the furniture, chop the barrel and you got yourself an M76.
A non-restricted 858 is still pretty far from a LMG. M78 has a HEAVY, 24" barrel and the CZ has a light 18.5" barrel. Overall weight of M78 is more than double of the weight of CZ.
Either way, we're getting off topic here. I think i answered the original question with post #15 here.
Exactly. There are tons of firearms that are way more overpriced than the Valmets are as far as functionality goes, yet people still buy them.
One more thing to keep in mind. Some rarer Valmet models in US (M62, M76 in 7.62x39) sell for $4000-$8000 despite the fact that AK's have zero "cool factor" there. Is an $8000 M76 milled TF 20 times the gun that a $400 Romanian WASR is? Of course not, but that doesnt stop people from paying $8k for one.
Comparing a Vamet to an 858 is absurd - blasphemous, really. I've bought a few Hunters and a cz2003 sport, iirc, which I sold shortly thereafter. There really is no comparison - I'd spend $3,000 on a Valmet before I'd spend $300 on the 858. I would'nt even want it taking up space in my safe. Like comparing a Nissan and a Yugo.
From what I understand, all Valmets were classified as prohibited and many were turned in for destruction - then a successful challenge saw the Vamet Hunter and M78 reclassified as non-restricted. However, many Valmets were destroyed in the interim. Nonetheless, they are the only rifle you can get with a true AK action. They are rare.
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For what it is, if Valmet were still around cranking out M78's and Hunters, and selling them new, I'd have to say they're not a $3,000+ rifle - not even half that, you compare it to Swiss Arms, FN, Tavor, etc, but that's just not the case.
Sorry, not buyin it. I am pretty sure the posters here have a vested interest in saying the hunters are much better than a CZ 858. As for quality, I'd rather just buy medved-3 for $3,200 which it is actually worth rather than buying a valmet for 5,000 which some guy is trying to rip people off for.
You lost all credibility when you compared a Valmet to a CZ. They dont even belong in the same thread. As promac said, comparing the two is blasphemous.
Not only you put them in the same sentence, you went as far as saying that CZ is a better gun. Im not even going to comment on this statement.
Then you went on to compare a Valmet to a Medved, neither of which you have ever handled or shot.
If the price of a gun was directly proportional to it's functionality, you wouldnt have people paying more for an antique (or even modern) revolver than they would pay for Glock.
I do not own a Valmet so I can't really comment on their quality but I would expect them to be fine as they are Finnish made, I believe by SAKO. However I do own a CZ 858 and the quality is more than acceptable for a military firearm. Change out the old furniture for something more modern and add modern optics and for the money its hard to beat. For range plinking in x39 using surplus or in .223 for competition shoots.
If you want to go hunting in .308 with an assault rifle then for less money there is the Swiss Arms rifle. I'm sure it would equal or surpass the Valmet in every category save the fact that the Valmet is a AK derivative and has a type of elan for some shooters/collectors based on that. For way less money there is the XCR or RFB and way way less, an upgraded Norc M305.
I believe if they were priced more in line with their competitors they would sell easily on the EE. For anything the priced paid depends upon how much the buyer is willing to pay and how dear the cost.
Has anyone bought one lately and if so perhaps the owner would chime in on their opinions/rationale.
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Rip people off? If you feel that way, don't buy it. There is a Valmet M78 listed on the EE for $5,100. I don't think the price is too unreasonable given the rarity and the condition. Valmets aren't made anymore and there's nothing else you can get like it - they're all AK variants and prohibited. Frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't sold. Every time I see it on the EE, I'm tempted to buy it, but I'm partial to the Hunters, which I already have. I might flip my Scar for it, if I ever get it.
When the U.S. dollar was trading at $1.50, you could find a minty Valmet in the U.S. selling anywhere from US$1,400 to 2,000. Then there was a matter of arranging the export and import paper work, shipping, etc, probably another CDN$600-800 - if an export permit was approved at all. If it isn't, what do you do with the rifle.......so there was always an element of risk involved. It seemed the U.S. State Department was either on or off - a coin toss at best. Now it seems even more unlikely, perhaps even impossible to get an export permit for the Valmet M78. When you do the math, you were looking at $3,400 or more plus all the time, effort and risk, landed in 2008. Then there was the issue of pinning the mags. Now you can't get them at all. Unless the Valmet company is resurrected and manufacturing the M78 and Hunter again at the same or superior quality, it's unlikely you'll find one that is priced competitively with other rifles of equivalent quality that are currently produced and legal to own in Canada. Anyone can place an order for a Swiss Arms rifle - but not so with the Valmet M78 and Hunter - they're not in business anymore. It's collector value.
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Man those who sell Valmets hate price critics! I know what these rifles cost in the day. They are very well made, and arguably better than 58s (you know I love 58s). Are they worth the high price? Not really, but hey, to each his own.
I don't think it's a rip off to charge $5100 if someone is willing to pay $5100
However, I can easily think of way better ways to spend $5100 on firearms than on a gun that is expensive simply because it was one of the few semi auto's of it's time to escape the Restricted list. As pointed out, there are plenty of non restricted semi rifles out there these days.
However, I can easily think of way better ways to spend $5100 on firearms than on a gun that is expensive simply because it was one of the few semi auto's of it's time to escape the Restricted list. As pointed out, there are plenty of non restricted semi rifles out there these days.
Personally I wouldn't buy a Swiss Arms rifle for what they cost even though there are many that would. I understand all about collector's value. I collect milsurps and have spent pretty a penny on this hobby as well as others.
That's why I said it all depends on what the buyer is willing to pay. For my money - if you are talking about spending $5000+ on a collectable firearm, military or not - then for me (and probably many others) it would not be a Valmet.
If I had a spare $5000+ to spend on a collectible firearm then it would be a Browning or TRW M1919, a Russian contract Winchester 1895 or a Police Sterling... lots before I'd ever consider a Valmet. Its not even a real AK-47.
- Location
- Toronto (GTA), Ontario
So how does it make it "no longer importable"? LOL
USA is only one of a few countries in the world. I guess you meant to say "no longer exportable FROM USA" which has nothing to do with being importable into Canada. This is how misinformation gets spread around.
gunplumberr
Regular
AK's are cool..wish I could own one
Keep kidding yourself, maybe some day some moron will pay that outrageous price. As for antiques, there are HUGE differences in functionality in Canada. No license, no registry, and they can be shot anywhere a NR rifle can be. That alone makes them worth more. Get over your stupid gun, comparing them to a CZ is not blasphemous, one of the reasons why the AK is so good is because it is dirt cheap. Take away that and there are many, many other rifles that are much better for the price. And besides, for the price difference any lack of quality the CZ has could be fixed 100X over. Don't get all pissy because you wasted a bunch of money on some stupid rifle.
I had a Valmet M78 (LMG) in .308 W for many years. I had bought it from Lever Arms, and old many Lever himself, when they were still in their original location in Vancouver. The price was $600! It was a hell of a rifle in forged steel for the receiver, very nice wood furniture and a good shooter as far as such guns go. It mauled the brass upon ejection and the rubber shell deflector and protector broke within a few hundred rounds of shooting. I sold the rifle about five years ago, I hardly took it out of the safe anymore. When my son inquired how much these go on the EE at that time, an offer was made for $3000 and I accepted it. It included two extra mags and its original cleaning kit. Was the gun worth $3,000 five years ago? Apparently to the buyer it was. Would I have sold it for less? Maybe but not much less due to their small numbers. To compare the quality of the M78 to that of the Vz858 only proves to me that the claimant has never handled a M78. As mentioned, no way to compare on with the other and I have had both.
Rip people off? If you feel that way, don't buy it. There is a Valmet M78 listed on the EE for $5,100. I don't think the price is too unreasonable given the rarity and the condition. Valmets aren't made anymore and there's nothing else you can get like it - they're all AK variants and prohibited. Frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't sold. Every time I see it on the EE, I'm tempted to buy it, but I'm partial to the Hunters, which I already have. I might flip my Scar for it, if I ever get it.
The VALMETs are really..... simply an early SAKO AK-47
Dont even ask about the quality....
The Israelis used the VALMET designs for the GALIL.... BECAUSE of the quality.....
People who complain about prices are just jealous... or broke.....
The CZ/VZ is a nice gun but please dont compare it to a VALMET....
I have a couple of them and will never sell.... infact.... if they are ever de-prohibited I'll get another
Dont even ask about the quality....
The Israelis used the VALMET designs for the GALIL.... BECAUSE of the quality.....
People who complain about prices are just jealous... or broke.....
The CZ/VZ is a nice gun but please dont compare it to a VALMET....
I have a couple of them and will never sell.... infact.... if they are ever de-prohibited I'll get another
