Valmet hunters

hfp75 said:
The VALMETs are really..... simply an early SAKO AK-47

Dont even ask about the quality....

The Israelis used the VALMET designs for the GALIL.... BECAUSE of the quality.....

People who complain about prices are just jealous... or broke.....

The CZ/VZ is a nice gun but please dont compare it to a VALMET....

I have a couple of them and will never sell.... infact.... if they are ever de-prohibited I'll get another :)
Click to expand...

I am neither. But saying something is worth a high price tag because it is rare is pretty ridiculous. Ever seen modern art? Ya, some idiot will pay lots for it but that doesn't mean it is actually WORTH that. But hey, if the owners can find some dumb ass to buy them then go for it.

The original poster asked why they were pricey and pretty much the only answer is that they are "rare", not better than rifles of the price range or way under, just rare. And why shouldn't The CZ be compared to a valmet?? As I said before, anything the CZ lacks in fit or finish could certainly be solved for the extra 4000 in cash you would have.

If you guy want to continue to try and convince yourselves it was worth it, go for it. But it will never be worth that to most people and will only be bought by someone who has a lapse in better judgement and is sucked in by the whole "but its a NR AK-47 action".
 
promac said:
Comparing a Vamet to an 858 is absurd - blasphemous, really. I've bought a few Hunters and a cz2003 sport, iirc, which I sold shortly thereafter. There really is no comparison - I'd spend $3,000 on a Valmet before I'd spend $300 on the 858. I would'nt even want it taking up space in my safe. Like comparing a Nissan and a Yugo.

From what I understand, all Valmets were classified as prohibited and many were turned in for destruction - then a successful challenge saw the Vamet Hunter and M78 reclassified as non-restricted. However, many Valmets were destroyed in the interim. Nonetheless, they are the only rifle you can get with a true AK action. They are rare.
Click to expand...

I am a 100% performance kind of guy. If the yugo beats the Nissan for its intended purpose, I am taking the yugo. The 858 is more practical then any of the x39 variants from Valmet in my experience.

If you are a wall hanger kind of guy, then yeah, the M78s, particularly the wooden hand guard ones are quite pretty. Alternatively, if that piece of Canadian legal history hits you in the heart, yeah, M78 all the way.

I would suggest that the number of buyers that fall into this category is very small though, and therefore it is hard to justify the current asking prices of the rifles IMO.
 
lone-wolf said:
Could the chinese clone a valmet and have it non-res, or is it non-res based on country of origin/manufacturer?
Click to expand...

the chinese already have, 2 basic models. the "hunter 90" (top) and "AK hunter" (bottom)

personally I think they are great rifles but here in the states this model is not popular at all. in a way I'm glad though, because of their popularity I paid $200 and $225 for them.

a few years ago before galil receivers became available guys were chopping these up for galil builds. that's actually what I bought the first one for.

PICT0179.jpg
 
Ahhhh..............guys Sako had nothing to do with the Valmets. They took over after the TRG/995 and M95 had been developed by Valmet. Long after the Hunter/Petras and M78s were being built.
 
fnrob said:
Problem is the Norinco "Hunter" models are prohib, just like 99.99% of all other AK variants in Canada. I forget where I'd seen one before (on the EE perhaps?), but it was a 12(5).
Click to expand...
Yea, just referring to the americans. Although they have screwed up laws when it comes to chinese firearms.
 
hfp75 said:
The VALMETs are really..... simply an early SAKO AK-47

Dont even ask about the quality....

The Israelis used the VALMET designs for the GALIL.... BECAUSE of the quality.....
Click to expand...

The Israelis did use features of the Valmet M62/M76 in designing the Galil but they also deviated from it. According to Peter G. Kokalis while "early Galil prototypes were fabricated using M62 receivers" the designer of the Galil "abandoned the pinned and riveted, stamped sheet-metal receiver of the Valmet M62/M76 series and went to a heavy milled forging."

And now the Israelis are requipping with the Tavor and still use the M4

hfp75 said:
People who complain about prices are just jealous... or broke.....
Click to expand...

Quite the generalization you make about people who don't share your opinion. I for one could have afforded to buy a Valmet if I had not chosen to purchase other rifles that are more appealing to me.

hfp75 said:
The CZ/VZ is a nice gun but please dont compare it to a VALMET....
Click to expand...

Why not? What's wrong with comparing the merits/demerits of one gun to another. The CZ/VZ has both good and bad points. Same as the Valmet. The Valmet is not the epitome of gun design.

hfp75 said:
I have a couple of them and will never sell.... infact.... if they are ever de-prohibited I'll get another :)
Click to expand...

Good for you. If you have two and can afford/want a third go for it. Is it a range gun or do you hunt with it?

And since you mentioned it in the first place, if the they are ever de-prohibited I'll buy a Galil, as for me, the fact that the Galil was used in combat is more appealing to me than the Valmet which has not.
 
Woodbeef said:
Ahhhh..............guys Sako had nothing to do with the Valmets. They took over after the TRG/995 and M95 had been developed by Valmet. Long after the Hunter/Petras and M78s were being built.
Click to expand...

Too True but the RK.92/95 was really just another sub-design from the original Valmet M62 & family designs or better yet a hybrid of the Valmet & Galil.... You could even say the 92/95 is the cadilac of AKs... infact too expensive to be a true service weapon if my history is right..... the cheep AKs were purchased instead....

I do beleive that SAKO or Beretta own the Patent/Copyright on Valmet......

There is a guy in the USA that bought all the remaining misc VALMET parts about 2 years ago... from SAKO....
 
Last edited:
The Finns bought Chinese 56s not that long ago, along with former East German rifles. They might build the best AKs, but they aren't that picky on the other hand.
 
fugawi said:
The Israelis did use features of the Valmet M62/M76 in designing the Galil but they also deviated from it. According to Peter G. Kokalis while "early Galil prototypes were fabricated using M62 receivers" the designer of the Galil "abandoned the pinned and riveted, stamped sheet-metal receiver of the Valmet M62/M76 series and went to a heavy milled forging."
Click to expand...

The M62 was a machined receiver and probably 1/4-1/3 of m76 models were too... The Galil was designed in the late 60s well before the M76 was really an idea. There may have been a few stamped M62s for trials but I have never seen or heard of one.

fugawi said:
And now the Israelis are requipping with the Tavor and still use the M4
Click to expand...

Yes, the M4 was free from the USA - its hard not to use them when they are free...... did I say Free yet or maybe virtually free...... The TAR21 is very new (in reality) and is an attempt to get Israel making its own guns - self reliance, but yet still be compatable with NATO & allies.....

All the machining in the Galil in the 70/80s was expensive as the automation did not exist like it does today.

fugawi said:
Quite the generalization you make about people who don't share your opinion. I for one could have afforded to buy a Valmet if I had not chosen to purchase other rifles that are more appealing to me.
Click to expand...

Most people have not shot or handelled a Valmet, let alone owned one. So, they are unable to acuratly judge it... Many people will want one but just dont know it yet.... :)

fugawi said:
Why not? What's wrong with comparing the merits/demerits of one gun to another. The CZ/VZ has both good and bad points. Same as the Valmet. The Valmet is not the epitome of gun design.
Click to expand...

No problem with the comparison, the CZ/VZ wins with availability & affordability. Overall... The Valmet wins though... In my opinion....

fugawi said:
And since you mentioned it in the first place, if the they are ever de-prohibited I'll buy a Galil, as for me, the fact that the Galil was used in combat is more appealing to me than the Valmet which has not.
Click to expand...

Id get another Valmet and a Galil too :)
 
Last edited:
I have a 1983 S.I.R. catelogue around someplace and I know it lists the Valmet as well as Romanian AKMs. Back then who knew what was coming legislation wise. If I had know then what I know now, I'd have bought a Valmet too.
 
Are all the Newly manufactured Valment / sakos classed as a variant? and such prohib?

What is your best bet to which country would have a supply of used 'hunters'? Lots of debt problems out in europe.....find some poor guys selling for cheap :)
 
rivetc78 said:
Are all the Newly manufactured Valment / sakos classed as a variant? and such prohib?

What is your best bet to which country would have a supply of used 'hunters'? Lots of debt problems out in europe.....find some poor guys selling for cheap :)
Click to expand...

Valmet was shut down in the early 80s (I think). There are no new ones. Sako is very alive and well (basically-owns the Valmet Patents). The Sako Rk 92/95 was really a Finnish (?) Govt contract and not intended as a commercial sales event. Finding those is gonna be hard - they were never really mass produced.

In Canadian law all AKs are prohibited. Only 2 AK receivers are listed as non-restricted by specific OICs. The Hunter & M78.

Finding them is not impossible but a challenge. They exist in the USA & in Europe. The Hunters are also known as a Petra/M-88. There are a few variations of the Hunter but really they are the same. Getting one for cheep will be a task - moreover, getting it exported from the USA will prove almost impossible for many reasons - 7.62x51, 5.56x45, 7.62x39 are all military ammo and cannot be exported, the M78 has a flash hider/supressor, ect ect ect you can see the problems now with an export. Never say never but last I heard it was a No Go from the US side. Maybe out of Europe, but each country will have its own weird export laws.

Good luck.
 
zZ_denis said:
Cracks me up every time i see some joker posting this.


To answer the original question:

Out of dozens of different countries that made AK's, Valmet made the highest quality variants by far. If you ever handled one side by side with a regular AK, you'd know what i mean.
AK is considered by majority of people in the world to be the best assault rifle ever designed.
Using the above points one can draw a conclusion that Valmets are the best assault rifles in existence today.

The 2 Valmets (Hunter and M78) are the ONLY non-prohib AK's in Canada. Valmet factory closed down over 20 years ago. No new rifles have been made since. Hunters and M78's are rare everywhere (not just Canada) and are no longer importable.
All of the above explains the high price tag.

YOU may not like the AK platform for whatever reason (and therefore disagree with the first point), but that doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way.
Oh, and BTW. Valmet hunter is a variant with sporting furniture. Check out pictures on Valmet.org if you want to see the non-sporting models (most of which are prohib along with the other AK's)
Click to expand...

Never ceases to amaze me that some folks don't understand that the AK is a terrific weapon, and the Vz is a terrific rifle. I've owned 2 AK's (used to take one hiking with me with a loaded 30 rounder), I've shot Valmets (M76+M78), I've shot a Galil (only 1,500 rounds but there you go) I even got to shoot an R4. Yes, they go bang - yes, if your target is man sized they're adequate, yes they have enough power to inflict injury. Fun to shoot? Nope. Good for shooting paper? Nope (frustrating as hell). Heavy, ugly, dirty and totally lacking in finesse. Kind of like comparing a sledgehammer to a finishing hammer. Unlike many, my reservations about the AK 'platform' are based on personal experience in using them for civllian shooting purposes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom