Canadian SDM Rifle?

A

arizonaicedtea

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
Does the canadian forces utilize a squad designated marksman rifle?
The new combat arms magazine details the Americans experience with their M14 DMRs and I was thinking that it would be neat if the CF could (with a little modification) use the FAL. (I'm assuming they're sitting in warehouses filled to the brim with cosmoline...)

Any info helpful!
 
Most of the FNs Canada had in war stocks took a one way trip to Stelco and that was the end of them. The storage facilities and preservation methods, or lack of were quite tough on them. I have heard that the infantry looked into getting a section level marksman rifle, but it was canned due to the logistics involved in selecting who would use it, then having to train that person with specialized skills and keeping them up to par, and of course providing tech support for the platform.
 
johnny rotten said:
Most of the FNs Canada had in war stocks took a one way trip to Stelco and that was the end of them. The storage facilities and preservation methods, or lack of were quite tough on them. I have heard that the infantry looked into getting a section level marksman rifle, but it was canned due to the logistics involved in selecting who would use it, then having to train that person with specialized skills and keeping them up to par, and of course providing tech support for the platform.
Click to expand...

Thats about right. Although from what I heard the project to equip the Forces with a Sharpshooter rifle is not dead. "Sharpshooter" or SS for short is, for better or worse, the Canadian designation of the designated marksmans.

Some good info here, pay perticular attention to some dude named KevinB:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,93274.0.html
 
Great link. Thanks for the info, both of you.
Ack, I would think combat experience in Afghanistan would make the need for accurate rifle fire out to ranges the 5.56 can't reliably handle abundantly clear. (Then again, not being in the forces I can't say I know thats a necessary thing, just going off word of mouth from family in the military.)
Anyone know what we use to solve 'problems' past 400 meters?
 
There was a really good post on this topic and other similar ones in the service rifle forum not to long ago. Check it out some input from some very experienced guys.
 
Going with 7.62 instead of 5.56 would give you longer range, more hitting power, and less susceptibility to wind in flight. Might want to go with a different rifle than the FN though... look at what the US is using and researching right now for DM roles overseas.
 
arizonaicedtea said:
Anyone know what we use to solve 'problems' past 400 meters?
Click to expand...

C9/LMG - C6/GPMG -.50cal M2 - Mortar - Brand new C16 CASW (belt fed grenade launcher) - Arty - CAS (close air support)

Then some other vehicle mounted stuff, like the 25mm Bushmaster on the LAV III and Coyote, or the Leopard 2 main gun (120mm?).

Yeah and I know I am missing some, like all the sniper platforms. We (as in not me) did use some AR10's with mixed results. I don't think anyone is using those in the CF anymore.
 
johnny rotten said:
Going with 7.62 instead of 5.56 would give you longer range, more hitting power, and less susceptibility to wind in flight. Might want to go with a different rifle than the FN though... look at what the US is using and researching right now for DM roles overseas.
Click to expand...

Dude I am totally on the KAC SR-25 EMR/EMC Kool aid. The idea that we (MPs) might get some along with the rest of the army makes me all :dancingbanana:
 
johnny rotten said:
Going with 7.62 instead of 5.56 would give you longer range, more hitting power, and less susceptibility to wind in flight. Might want to go with a different rifle than the FN though... look at what the US is using and researching right now for DM roles overseas.
Click to expand...

I just thought the FN might be a good idea because it could be comparatively cost effective to outfit existing models with a marksman package, but if the forces doesn't actually have working models any more than that idea sort of loses its one selling point. (Really though, we should spare no expense on choosing a rifle perfect for our troops because NO amount of money is more valuable than the life of one of our soldiers.)

The KAC SR-25 sounds awesome.
Maybe with a conservative majority we will get to see something new?
 
There was a marksman package of sorts for the FN rifle. It consisted of a low power scope 4.3x? on a removable mount, which would take the place of the standard issue receiver covering. One of the guys on CGN had a nice poster of the FN and all its accessories, you can see the scope and mount on it. Believe the scope was made by Leitz Optics, but had issues with not being rock steady as the receiver covering moved slightly on firing..... I could be wrong here though. Going to the Iron Curtain side of the fence, the Russians had very good success with their Dragunov rifle and embed both snipers and DMs in virtually every formation that goes on an op.
 
From a current military standpoint, the FN FAL is a relic from the Cold War. As has been already mentioned, the old CF ones that we carried(I was in the CF when the transition occurred), were all destroyed, save for a few wall-hangers in museums and such. So the whole, "bring em out for the remainder of the Afghanistan mission" is moot.
IMHO, we would do much better to look at a modern solution for medium range marksmanship.
 
johnny rotten said:
One of the guys on CGN had a nice poster of the FN and all its accessories, you can see the scope and mount on it. Believe the scope was made by Leitz Optics, but had issues with not being rock steady as the receiver covering moved slightly on firing.....
Click to expand...
The only scope mount that I ever encountered were for the night optics. That basically consisted of using a replacement, slide in dust cover. Think flimsy after thought. I don't believe that the FAL type rifles were really designed with scope mounting in mind.
 
Wild_Thing said:
The only scope mount that I ever encountered were for the night optics. That basically consisted of using a replacement, slide in dust cover. Think flimsy after thought. I don't believe that the FAL type rifles were really designed with scope mounting in mind.
Click to expand...

The body cover of the FAL isn't flimsy by far and there were other mounts used for sniping/DM purposes by Belgium and others besides our mount.

It was a fine battle rifle and plenty of guys won Bisley trophy's with it, but it is not a sniper rifle. The AR 10's (never got to hold one, never saw the Mfr name) that I saw overseas made more sense from a training point of view as the drills would be the same as the C7/8 family.
 
recce said:
The AR 10's (never got to hold one, never saw the Mfr name) that I saw overseas made more sense from a training point of view as the drills would be the same as the C7/8 family.
Click to expand...

Now there's an idea. (For purely aesthetic reasons I think it'd be neat to adopt the AR-10B with wood furniture, but I realize this isn't as practical as other models)
 
Wood furniture? Sigh.

Going to an AR10 platform makes absolute sense from a training perspective (I am all for it, the SR25 is an evolution of the AR10.).

But we already tried Armalite AR10's. I have an Armalite AR10 which I use infrequently (civi side) and I don't like the mags. Apparently operational experience mirrors this.
 
recce said:
It was a fine battle rifle and plenty of guys won Bisley trophy's with it, but it is not a sniper rifle.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. I loved using the FN C1, and would love to buy one now if it were legal for us to do so. But the truth is, it was a battle rifle, not a precision marksman tool. It had power and range, but it did not have any way of providing a solid mount for a scope, to ensure 1 shot engagements from 500-900m. In fact, the factory issue scope, which seems to have sold VERY few examples, was very low powered, I'm talking maybe 2x ?

Some company did make a very complex dust cover/scopemount, that somehow fit really tight to the upper receiver, but the C1 is long gone from CF service, so it doesn't really matter.
 
When I was over in Kandahar, 2006/07, each platoon had two troops run through a week or so of "sniper" training and was issued a C3 for use as a DM. I had been told that the battle group had tried to get a number of C1s pulled from war stock for issue at the platoon/section level for the increased fire power. We were never issued any and were told that a number had been picked up by JTF2 for that same reason. Not sure if that was fact or just the rumour mill at work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom