.44 mag for Moose?

What is the general use lever gun cartidge of choice, for deer, bear and moose?

  • .45-70

    Votes: 135 61.1%

  • .45 LC

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • .44 magnum

    Votes: 22 10.0%

  • .454 Casull

    Votes: 5 2.3%

  • .30-30

    Votes: 55 24.9%

  • .444

    Votes: 32 14.5%
  • Total voters
    221
SKOKIE I think you made a good choice I have a 45/70 but it's a little weak (trapdoor)

And I have A 99F in .308 ,But I would want a lever 45/70 just because I don't know

which would kill you faster the Moose or the Big Bear! It would be nice to be carrying

a rifle that might give you a leg up on either.

Bob
 
Gatehouse said:
I wonder how a 45/70 with a factory or "original" loading stacks up against a hot loaded 44 Mag or 45 Colt launched from a rifle?
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That would be interesting just as how the 45ACP was as hot as a 45Colt,

But much hotter in the Thompson . So I suspect you would find the 45Colt

loaded hot(blawkhawk or Puma 92) faster than the 405 Grain X70 grains CRT

powder .but the 260 grain 45 colt will have little to offer over the 400-500

grain 1,000 fpc HEAVY bullets!

I like my SS Mod 92 in 45 Colt!

Bob
 
troutseeker said:
But Gatehouse, "orignal" loadings are all made specifically for moose!;)
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He makes a good point, if you are talking "original loadings" than your talking black powder rounds, with cast lead bullets 400 to 500 grains and velocities in the area of 1400 to 1600 fps. This round was first a military, but subsequently a BUFFALO round, and they dropped bison by the thousands. I think the venerable "old soldier" will always have an advantage over a .45LC.
 
I shoot 300 gr bullets at 1600-1700 fps from my 45 Colt Trapper with a 16" barrel.
I don't have a 44 Magnum rifle but I don't see why you couldn't get similar performance to my 45 Colt rifle.


Federal offers a 300 gr 45/70 load at 1850fps

Remington offers a 45/70 load with 405 gr bullets at 1300 fps

Winchester has 2 300 gr offerings of 45/70 at 1880fps


Are these factory loads offering up that much more performance? Would a guy showing up to moose hunt with his 300gr 1850fps 45/70 loads be embraced but the guy with the 44 Magnum/45 Colt 300gr loads at 1650 fps will get laughed at?

Deep thoughts....;)
 
I think the big advantage the 45/70 has is with heavier bullets handloaded. The 45/70 with the 400gr bullets pushed from 1800-2000 fps is what the wakes the 45/70 up...
the 300gr bullets are soft and lack much penetration,on a perfectly broad side shot through the ribs you would be good,any other presentation and I wouldn't take the shot.
 
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grit said:
I think the big advantage the 45/70 has is with heavier bullets handloaded. The 45/70 with the 400gr bullets pushed from 1800-2000 fps is what the wakes the 45/70 up...
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I agree with you completely. But most people don't handload and I bet there are lots of guys shooting Marlin Guide Guns with these factory loads and feeling quite confident with moose.

the 300gr bullets are soft and lack much penetration,on a perfectly broad side shot through the ribs you would be good,any other presentation and I wouldn't take the shot
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Sorta like what a guy should do when using a 44 mag or 45 colt.:)
 
Gatehouse said:
Regardless, most hunters do not handload.
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I'm that case they would be better of with the .444 Marlin. Factory Hornady ammo 265gr at 2400fps. :stirthepot2:

I handload 300gr Speer and Hornady at 2200fps and 325gr cast between 2000-2100fps (haven't chronoed those yet).
 
Confidence is a major big deal, and the 45-70 guys are very confident with their rifles. Sometimes this is based a bit more on myth (the 45-70 is a CANNON!!!) than actual performance (in terms of energy anyways). With commonplace Winchester silver box 300gr offerings, my brother's guide gun was getting 1800 fps right on the button through my chrony. In real life, perfectly suitable for big game at closer ranges, but not exactly burning up the charts in terms of energy levels. He also had a very hard time getting his head around the idea that my "little" .454 Casull could easily exceed this performance with handloads (though obviously not match full-bore 45-70 handloads).
 
bcsteve said:
I'm that case they would be better of with the .444 Marlin. Factory Hornady ammo 265gr at 2400fps. :stirthepot2:

.
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Yes, possibly, but if I had a 444 I'd still want ot choose heavier bullets.:)


Confidence is a major big deal, and the 45-70 guys are very confident with their rifles. Sometimes this is based a bit more on myth (the 45-70 is a CANNON!!!) than actual performance (in terms of energy anyways). With commonplace Winchester silver box 300gr offerings, my brother's guide gun was getting 1800 fps right on the button through my chrony. In real life, perfectly suitable for big game at closer ranges, but not exactly burning up the charts in terms of energy levels. He also had a very hard time getting his head around the idea that my "little" .454 Casull could easily exceed this performance with handloads (though obviously not match full-bore 45-70 handloads).
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That's exactly what I am talking about. :D

Unless you are handloading the 45/70, the benefits over the 44 mag or 45 colt are pretty marginal. If you are handloading, then you can make yourself some real hammer loads.;)
 
NB444 said:
Actually that 265 fp bullet is a proven performer on elk and moose in the real world. It is well known for penetrating deep and holding together for a DRT effect on game.
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X2. It is an actual rifle bullet not a pistol like most other bullet used in the .444. I do like heavier bullet as well and mostly load 300gr and my custom 325gr cast in mine.
 
NB444 said:
Gatehouse said:
Yes, possibly, but if I had a 444 I'd still want ot choose heavier bullets.:)

Actually that 265 fp bullet is a proven performer on elk and moose in the real world. It is well known for penetrating deep and holding together for a DRT effect on game.
Click to expand...

bcsteve said:
X2. It is an actual rifle bullet not a pistol like most other bullet used in the .444. I do like heavier bullet as well and mostly load 300gr and my custom 325gr cast in mine.
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Good to know. Lots of 444's seem to get loaded with pistol bullets. If I wasn't a handloader I might be interested in a .444 over a 45/70. Or a .450 Marlin, I guess.:D
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NB444 said:
Try the 444 Marlin. Factory loads are more than enough for moose, recoils less than a 45-70 and is a very good cartridge to reload. You can load it down to 44 mag velocities and use any .429 bullets or try your hand at cast bullets that weigh 340 grains and more. The leverevolution 444 round has a better trajectory than the 45-70 and is actually a good all around deer, bear and moose round.
Hornady has out a new load that spits out a 265g bullet at 2400fps for almost 3400 ft/lbs of energy, sounds like moose medicine to me!
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A 300gr Speer FP pushed to 2200fps (444 Marlin)is a hammer on game! Dropped my moose on the spot :) Does not recoil as much as a 45/70 also.
 
Northman999 said:
Confidence is a major big deal, and the 45-70 guys are very confident with their rifles. Sometimes this is based a bit more on myth (the 45-70 is a CANNON!!!) than actual performance (in terms of energy anyways). With commonplace Winchester silver box 300gr offerings, my brother's guide gun was getting 1800 fps right on the button through my chrony. In real life, perfectly suitable for big game at closer ranges, but not exactly burning up the charts in terms of energy levels. He also had a very hard time getting his head around the idea that my "little" .454 Casull could easily exceed this performance with handloads (though obviously not match full-bore 45-70 handloads).
Click to expand...

Ah, true enough. However the basis of the .45-70's highest killing power is not speed or energy, it is a heavy, blunt, hard cast solid or patition with a modest velocity between 1400 and 1600 fps. Have a look at this article, it gives a fair evaluation of the .45-70 as an African game cartridge. But more importantly discusses the "impact effect" of a cartridge, an interesting article at the very least.

http://www.the4570inafrica.########.com/
 
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