.223 vs deer?
- Thread starter Major Sights
- Start date
Dukester,
In your opinion what is the smallest cartridge to ethically hunt a deer with? And what are your reasons for choosing this cartridge? Also, what is your answer to the quoted question below?
In your opinion what is the smallest cartridge to ethically hunt a deer with? And what are your reasons for choosing this cartridge? Also, what is your answer to the quoted question below?
I'm not a big fan of .22 centerfire for deer, I think their is alot of better choices out there. I also know enough to know that it is easily doable with the right bullet and proper shot placement.
Have a look at this thread on the Campfire about the .223AI and 63gr TSX vs. hogs.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...6/gonew/1/I_recovered_2_TSXs_this_week#UNREAD
Have a look at this thread on the Campfire about the .223AI and 63gr TSX vs. hogs.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...6/gonew/1/I_recovered_2_TSXs_this_week#UNREAD
I agree. I certainly wouldn't use one for deer but I have no doubt it could be effective in the right hands.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
so now that I have infracted and cleaned up this thread I'm going to unlock it
I expect a civil discussion to continue or there will be locking and more infractions
I expect a civil discussion to continue or there will be locking and more infractions
To what end ?
Look clearly you can shoot a Deer with a .223, if it doesnt go down...shoot it again and again.
All these "ethical" type discussions are sort of flawed. People who are acting inside the regs if the round is allowed are legal. Some people are good shots and can probably get alot of deer with the round, some probably couldnt get a deer using explosives.
People should do what they want for themselves and worry less about the other guy, as long as hes safe and legal his skills or lack there of is his problem.
Look clearly you can shoot a Deer with a .223, if it doesnt go down...shoot it again and again.
All these "ethical" type discussions are sort of flawed. People who are acting inside the regs if the round is allowed are legal. Some people are good shots and can probably get alot of deer with the round, some probably couldnt get a deer using explosives.
People should do what they want for themselves and worry less about the other guy, as long as hes safe and legal his skills or lack there of is his problem.
Yes you can shoot again and again, especially with all the cheap surplus ammo you can take deer hunting with you!!
( At least until they make it a shotgun or archery only zone because of all the rounds whizzing around ).Deer are a shared resource, we all have an interest in each animal and how it is managed and harvested. And we all have an interest in how our sport is perceived.
And up until you put it in your freezer, you represent all of us.
And if you wonder why I have those strong feelings, it's not because I am fuddley to a fault, it's because I cut my deer hunting teeth in a time period when there were few deer to shoot in eastern Ontario. I hunted ( hard )almost 5 years before getting a shot.( My first fell to 30-06 150 grain handloads ).
Maybe there are too many deer around now to teach anybody anything?
As much as I respect Gatehouse and Captonion opinions I just can't see you being able to stuff enough bullet into that cartridge to be able to recommend it as a deer round.
I did see Barnes has the TSX in 70 grains, but boy I bet you really gotta bury that tiny baby deep in the cartridge!
I have never recomended a 223 for deer as a go to hunting round. I do however stand by what I said, as it is a good freezer filler in the right hands. If you don't mind passing up shots I see nothing wrong with it. No different than using a 25-06 for moose IMO.
The 60gr Nosler Partition backed by 25 Grains of IMR 4895 is a load I have been playing with lately. Getting dime sized-minus groups @ 100yds.
Yes you can shoot again and again, especially with all the cheap surplus ammo you can take deer hunting with you!!
Deer are a shared resource, we all have an interest in each animal and how it is managed and harvested. And we all have an interest in how our sport is perceived.
And up until you put it in your freezer, you represent all of us.
And if you wonder why I have those strong feelings, it's not because I am fuddley to a fault, it's because I cut my deer hunting teeth in a time period when there were few deer to shoot in eastern Ontario. I hunted ( hard )almost 5 years before getting a shot.( My first fell to 30-06 150 grain handloads ).
Maybe there are too many deer around now to teach anybody anything?
As much as I respect Gatehouse and Captonion opinions I just can't see you being able to stuff enough bullet into that cartridge to be able to recommend it as a deer round.
I did see Barnes has the TSX in 70 grains, but boy I bet you really gotta bury that tiny baby deep in the cartridge!
Personally I dont hunt deer with a .223. I think my 6mm Remington is abit marginal to maybe. I use a .270 or a crossbow. That said I have read alot about guys south of the border who shoot deer all the time with a .223 where in some places the deer are smaller.
Turns out that a monometal design like the TSX isn't as dependent on bullet weight as a conventional design. A quote from a knowledgeable source (Docter Roberts):
"Keep in mind, that with non-fragmenting bullet designs, heavier bullet weights are not necessarily better, especially at closer ranges and from shorter barrels. As long as penetration and upset remain adequate, it is possible to use lighter weight non-fragmenting bullets and still have outstanding terminal performance. With fragmenting designs, a heavier bullet is ideal, as it provides more potential fragments and still allows the central core to have enough mass for adequate penetration. In addition, heavier bullets may have an advantage at longer ranges due to better BC and less wind drift."
I use the 55gr TSX which works well. The 70gr TSX expands a bit less but penetrates a bit deeper. The 55gr opens up to .45" almost immediately and goes 17.6" in ballistic gelatin after heavy clothing (sorry, no deer skin results available). Much more than that is moot on most deer if you can hold out for a decent shot.
.22LR is the freezer filler of all time!!
Some folks dont get to pass up all those shots like you expert hunters!
And I have no doubt of the accuracy you are getting, and fun to shoot all day long!
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
I can't even count all the deer I've shot over the years. Tons of them out here
here 243 is the minimum legal caliber and at one time 40mm was the minimum case lenght they changed that a few years back.
I use a 25-06 for deer but its a bit of overkill for most of the deer, but its good for longer shots.
223 for deer would work just fine, they are just not that tough, but not legal here in Alberta.
but then again, by law, you can use 38 special to hunt deer here
here 243 is the minimum legal caliber and at one time 40mm was the minimum case lenght
they changed that a few years back. I use a 25-06 for deer but its a bit of overkill for most of the deer, but its good for longer shots.
223 for deer would work just fine, they are just not that tough, but not legal here in Alberta.
but then again, by law, you can use 38 special to hunt deer here
I watched todbartell shoot a doe mule deer with a .221 FIreball and a 45gr TSX
Doe took a couple of stumbling steps and flopped down, dead. Lungs looked like soup.
Lung Goo almost looks like liver:
EXIT
So why are we still having this conversation?
Doe took a couple of stumbling steps and flopped down, dead. Lungs looked like soup.
Lung Goo almost looks like liver:
EXIT
So why are we still having this conversation?
TheCoachZed
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ya know, Gatehouse, I still don't think anyone's been able to refute the YouTube video I posted way back on here either... There's a pretty convincing deer kill on that. It drops a lot sooner than the one I hit twice with a .30-30 (with well placed shots).
