Action needed from all BC hunters!( and non hunters)

Mur I never said anyone was 100% wrong or right BUT your example is a bad 1 several roads are closed to public everywere a guided territory is purchased and owned by a guide and licenced by the government, so yes they have acces to these spots due to the fact they pay out the butt, and last I checked you are aloud to use the area just not by means of motored vehicle so horse,walk, pedal bike etc we have areas in the north as well like that to stop road erosion, and before its said a guide isnt going to kill the road like 300 hunters a day, and also its a big misunderstanding that every guide kills all there tags, Ive been in camps were they had 4 grizz tags for 5 years and had 4 griz hunters a year no bear was ever shot, moose is the same mybe a fair bet 60% kill to hunter ratio overall, and in my opinion thats great saves a few moose for next year if the wolves dont get them especially up here
 
bone-collector said:
Mur I never said anyone was 100% wrong or right BUT your example is a bad 1 several roads are closed to public everywere a guided territory is purchased and owned by a guide and licenced by the government, so yes they have acces to these spots due to the fact they pay out the butt, and last I checked you are aloud to use the area just not by means of motored vehicle so horse,walk, pedal bike etc we have areas in the north as well like that to stop road erosion, and before its said a guide isnt going to kill the road like 300 hunters a day, and also its a big misunderstanding that every guide kills all there tags, Ive been in camps were they had 4 grizz tags for 5 years and had 4 griz hunters a year no bear was ever shot, moose is the same mybe a fair bet 60% kill to hunter ratio overall, and in my opinion thats great saves a few moose for next year if the wolves dont get them especially up here
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Bone collector we have areas down here that are motorised restricted too,I have no problem with that.But 2 sets of rules,one for a commercial user of wildlife and one for the rest of us,on Crown land....I have a problem with that.Also the guides can use part of their allocation in one year as you say but they can also shoot more than their allocation in a year if they wish to.Right now there are only 6 outfits in BC selling all their hunts,but a lot of them are calling for more quota.One reason is that it makes their territories more valuable when they sell,even if the animals aren't there to support the quota.Like I said they already get pretty well the largest allocation in North America,why do they need more? Mur
 
It is a well known fact that the guides here in region 4 are allowed to use motorised transportation in the support of their hunt, which a resident hunter cannot do. I cannot drive my camp in this week, then ride my bike/horse or walk in next week to hunt, a guide can. Most of the road closures here were also CREATED to protect GO area's (there is also a thread on HBC about this). I have ridden my bike 12-20km into a road closure only to have the guide drive his hunters in with a pickup right past me on the road. This is a common occurrence. Yes they pay for their territory, but I spend $300 a year on tags too, and I am not a money making enterprise, they are.

That is where the fight starts, this country is supposed to be based on equality, and things are just not equal.
 
LongBomber said:
It is a well known fact that the guides here in region 4 are allowed to use motorised transportation in the support of their hunt, which a resident hunter cannot do. I cannot drive my camp in this week, then ride my bike/horse or walk in next week to hunt, a guide can. Most of the road closures here were also CREATED to protect GO area's (there is also a thread on HBC about this). I have ridden my bike 12-20km into a road closure only to have the guide drive his hunters in with a pickup right past me on the road. This is a common occurrence. Yes they pay for their territory, but I spend $300 a year on tags too, and I am not a money making enterprise, they are.

That is where the fight starts, this country is supposed to be based on equality, and things are just not equal.
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Dead right LongBomber,it's Crown Land,it belongs to the people of BC and favoritism as far as access goes is BS.Let the guide ride his clients in on a tandem bike if there is no motorised access!They don't own the land or the wildlife.I'm not saying get rid of rthe guides,but we need a level playing field. Mur
 
What happened is that the GOABC agreed to the Allocation Policy and for it to be implemented in 2012. Now GOABC wants to renegotiate. This was all agreed to several years ago.
 
well I cant and wont argue with the guys from down there and if this is the case then yea everyone should be on it to help them out, we dont have any real issues up here with guides in fact I know a couple that let residents set up camp by theres
 
bone-collector said:
well I cant and wont argue with the guys from down there and if this is the case then yea everyone should be on it to help them out, we dont have any real issues up here with guides in fact I know a couple that let residents set up camp by theres
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I have never and wouldn't camp next to a guide(not because I don't get along with guides!).They are selling their clients a wilderness hunt and I wouldn't want to screw them up any more than I would a camp full of Resident hunters.That being said it is Crown land(including guide territories) and anyone can camp wherever they might want to.Mur
 
to qoute Rex Murphy on the Prime Minister Harper. Guides are not near the monster they are being made out to be...but most will not know that so almost pointless to say...

least here there is some levity in the discussion. I would encourage people to get both sides of the argument in order to have a less bias oppinion.

there are some good people who are being hurt badly by the current deal and they tend to be the smaller folk rather then the larger operations......there have been many complaints against the large concession but the current deal ends up favoring them at the expense of the mom and pop.

I personaly would support the smaller outfits at the expense of some resident opportunity for the few tags involved would do very little to improve my percentage of LEH success anyway.

like anything the small guy get screwed and the big guy just keeps aquiring more. We have to know who were giving the leg up.
 
on top of all this they lobbied the ministry to change regulations for open seasons to favor success of guided hunts. Example..... there are thriving populations of mule deer throughout region 5 , yet we saw specifically dated rut closures that screwed every resident hunter , both those from outside the region and those living in region 5. Most of us work so timing our hunts for the best time to be in the bush is key to success for many folks. This rut closure on mule deer bucks is not a management issue due to deer population decline..... it's keeping resident hunters out of the bush while guides take clients out for the big bucks uninterupted. This is the kind of lobbying going on by the GOABC and it reeks.

as far as i'm concerned, guide outfit hunting should be the LAST allocation on the list. Just like commercial fishing, if you can't make money doing it and need the government to step in and muck with things so that it's profitable..... screw you, you get no support from me.
I should note that I am registered Metis , I have no special hunting privleges, buy a liscence like every other b.c. hunter, and I fully support resident hunting and aboriginal opportunities long befoire i'd give an inch to the GOABC
I have also spent a number of years in the sport fishing guiding/instructing and chartering business and got to hang out with and hunt with many BC and outside of BC guides. One even told me the story of an associate or aquaintance who guided one of the biggest moose in BC.... which apparently the client only flew out with the rack and left the meat in the creek to rot..... too heavy for the plane i guess.
last year 2 aquaintances flew out of ft nelson to a remote camp, then another 20 km on horseback thru rivers and what not to a spike camp. the area dominated by grizzlies , elk and moose. elk number one, a nice 6 pointer went down easy enough, but the guys nearly lost thier lives when the first grizz showed up and stole the whole fricken animal, burying it a few hundred yards away. So the guide/spike camp operator said, oh well, we'll just let you shoot another one.
at the end of that trip they only came out with 170 lbs of elk meat and 2 nice racks due to bears. the story they tell is that they had to shoot 3 elk to get the little meat they managed to keep from the bears. The whole story stinks to me and when i got invited to go on this years 5000.00 a head trip (we were getting a deal apparently) I declined.
I feel from those that i have talked to that have been on some of the resident guided hunts and from a handful of well known guides that have left the industry in disgust, that there is rampant violations of the wildlife act as far as "fair chase" and meat retrieval are concerned.

I can understand the need for guides in areas that have difficult access. And these guys should get paid for the dangerous hard work they perform to deliver for a client, but i do not agree that thier tags should even affect the LEH resident hunter system nor be part of it. Guide allocations should be based on concetrations of animals in the hard to reach places.
 
horshur said:
to qoute Rex Murphy on the Prime Minister Harper. Guides are not near the monster they are being made out to be...but most will not know that so almost pointless to say...

least here there is some levity in the discussion. I would encourage people to get both sides of the argument in order to have a less bias oppinion.

there are some good people who are being hurt badly by the current deal and they tend to be the smaller folk rather then the larger operations......there have been many complaints against the large concession but the current deal ends up favoring them at the expense of the mom and pop.

I personaly would support the smaller outfits at the expense of some resident opportunity for the few tags involved would do very little to improve my percentage of LEH success anyway.

like anything the small guy get screwed and the big guy just keeps aquiring more. We have to know who were giving the leg up.
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A lot of other Resident hunters may not agree with your idea of giving GOABC a "few" more tags,as some folks in the Cariboo may take up to 20 years to draw a tag in their home area.The Government does not subsidise Mom & Pop grocery stores when Walmart moves in,why should they give "give a hand up" to small guiding businesses?I understand that you are now working for one of GOABCs members,perhaps thats why you are giving us "both sides of the argument".I would not disagree with smaller outfits getting more quota,but it must come from other guides,not from Residents,we have already given GOABC more quota than any other jurisdiction(but 2),in North America.When while they quit crying for more? Mur
 
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