milspec/commercial tube?

[Chuck3436]

Same old question I know...

but I just got an older STAG ar, it appears to have a 4 position with flat back buffer tube.

That points me to the fact that its indeed MILSPEC.

BUT, I was told when I bought it that it is COMMERCIAL.

Confused

 

[Undergiver]

I have a 4 position with no angle on the tube and it's commercial diameter.

 

[Chuck3436]

I have a 4 position with no angle on the tube and it's commercial diameter.

I thought most commercials came with 6 pos?

 

[MWL]

Lower Receiver Extension

Magpul has some pretty good explanations of the difference:

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG401/82

Click on the "Related Info" tab on the right to view the appropriate PDFs.

The easiest was to tell without measuring, is to look at the threads. If they extend beyond the diameter of the tube, the extension is "mil-spec"; if they are the same diameter as the tube, it will be "commercial-spec".

It is a little hard to see from the photos, but it appears to be "commercial-spec".

"Commercial-spec" tubes may have either a flat or slanted back, and either tube may have from 2 to 6 positions.

Regards.

Mark

 

[Chuck3436]

Magpul has some pretty good explanations of the difference:

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG401/82

Click on the "Related Info" tab on the right to view the appropriate PDFs.

The easiest was to tell without measuring, is to look at the threads. If they extend beyond the diameter of the tube, the extension is "mil-spec"; if they are the same diameter as the tube, it will be "commercial-spec".

It is a little hard to see from the photos, but it appears to be "commercial-spec".

"Commercial-spec" tubes may have either a flat or slanted back, and either tube may have from 2 to 6 positions.

Regards.

Mark

Judging only by the threads, it does appear commspec. Here's a better pic to confirm for you pro's.

 

[MWL]

Commercial-spec.

It does appear to be "commercial-spec" from the look of the threads.

On a somewhat related matter, you need to ensure that the castle nut is torqued to 40 foot pounds and then properly staked.

Regards.

Mark

 

[angryeyebrows]

It does appear to be "commercial-spec" from the look of the threads.

On a somewhat related matter, you need to ensure that the castle nut is torqued to 40 foot pounds and then properly staked.

Regards.

Mark

Staking it is not 100% necessary for a civy rifle. As long as it is good and tight it'll be OK.

Most people will attempt to stake their own castle nut and do more harm than good.

 

[Chuck3436]

Thanks a bunch guys.

I don't think I'll tinker with teh castle nut, it appears on quite tight and if its factory I'll bet its torqued properly already. Just needed to know what stock to order...

Cheers.

 

[MWL]

Stake the Receiver End Plate/Castle Nut.

You just purchased an "older" rifle. How much has it been used? Has it been dis-assembled at any point? How do you know it's tight enough?

Why is it that some people think just because you are not going to be storming Tora Bora with the deltarangernavyseals, your rifle will be good to go, as long as the fit and finish is good, and the upper/lower is nice and tight? Why is it that the Tier 1 manufacturers who sell rifles to civvies stake the plates?

That's probably the advice they gave this guy:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609898

Of course, if the rifle is just a safe queen, to take out and impress your buddies once in a while, it will probably be ok.

Note: This "rant" is not directed at you, it's directed at the high post count "experts" that freely dispense advice here without knowing what they are talking about. The same "experts" that I then see on LF and M4C that ask noob questions, make stupid comments, and get their asses handed to them.

You can stake the receiver end plate/castle nut in about two minutes using an automatic centre punch from Crappy Tire. Instructions on how to do it are all over the internet, and if you need help, you can get it from forums like M4C.

Regards.

Mark

 

[dangertree]

Thanks a bunch guys.

I don't think I'll tinker with teh castle nut, it appears on quite tight and if its factory I'll bet its torqued properly already. Just needed to know what stock to order...

Cheers.

It's not factory. We've never sold 4-Position or any Commercial Spec tubes. We've sold lots of stripped lowers and rifles with A2 stocks though.

That said, if it works, and you're happy...

Cheers,
DT

 

[mmattockx]

Here is my dumbass black rifle rookie question for the day. Why are there two different tube diameters? Is this a US ITAR related issue?


Mark

 

[Chuck3436]

It's not factory. We've never sold 4-Position or any Commercial Spec tubes. We've sold lots of stripped lowers and rifles with A2 stocks though.

That said, if it works, and you're happy...

Cheers,
DT

Interesting.

Its a 14.5inch barrel, STAG marked 1/7 twist.

Lower is definately STAG, can't miss that part.

I wonder what model this is...if its complete or parts put together or what. Got it on trade, and being an AR newbie, don't know enough about her to know anything. I should post pics so at least I konw what I own! Regardless, its quickly becomming my latest obsession.

 

[Gunnerlove]

You just purchased an "older" rifle. How much has it been used? Has it been dis-assembled at any point? How do you know it's tight enough?

Why is it that some people think just because you are not going to be storming Tora Bora with the deltarangernavyseals, your rifle will be good to go, as long as the fit and finish is good, and the upper/lower is nice and tight? Why is it that the Tier 1 manufacturers who sell rifles to civvies stake the plates?

That's probably the advice they gave this guy:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609898

Of course, if the rifle is just a safe queen, to take out and impress your buddies once in a while, it will probably be ok.

Note: This "rant" is not directed at you, it's directed at the high post count "experts" that freely dispense advice here without knowing what they are talking about. The same "experts" that I then see on LF and M4C that ask noob questions, make stupid comments, and get their asses handed to them.

You can stake the receiver end plate/castle nut in about two minutes using an automatic centre punch from Crappy Tire. Instructions on how to do it are all over the internet, and if you need help, you can get it from forums like M4C.

Regards.

Mark

So Colt stakes all their castle nuts? Good to know, now I can stop doing it for them.

 

[angryeyebrows]

You just purchased an "older" rifle. How much has it been used? Has it been dis-assembled at any point? How do you know it's tight enough?

Why is it that some people think just because you are not going to be storming Tora Bora with the deltarangernavyseals, your rifle will be good to go, as long as the fit and finish is good, and the upper/lower is nice and tight? Why is it that the Tier 1 manufacturers who sell rifles to civvies stake the plates?

Of course, if the rifle is just a safe queen, to take out and impress your buddies once in a while, it will probably be ok.

Note: This "rant" is not directed at you, it's directed at the high post count "experts" that freely dispense advice here without knowing what they are talking about. The same "experts" that I then see on LF and M4C that ask noob questions, make stupid comments, and get their asses handed to them.

Was this rant directed at ME?

 

[MWL]

Responses to questions.

1. Asking questions you already know the answer to just makes you look like an ass.

2. Any Colt factory built ARs that leave the factory unstaked should be returned to Colt. I highly doubt that any of the "Colt" rifles you have had to stake yourself left the factory that way.

3. Angry - glad to see you know what you are. Maybe you should follow the advice of read more post less.

Regards.

Mark

 

[Gunnerlove]

Thankfully there are people on the internet to tell me what to do.

 

[angryeyebrows]

1. Asking questions you already know the answer to just makes you look like an ass.

2. Any Colt factory built ARs that leave the factory unstaked should be returned to Colt. I highly doubt that any of the "Colt" rifles you have had to stake yourself left the factory that way.

3. Angry - glad to see you know what you are. Maybe you should follow the advice of read more post less.

Regards.

Mark

Buds, you are the one who looks like an ass. You come on here shooting your mouth off about a comment I made, as if you are the definitive source of information on the subject. I see you've been a board member since 09? Just past the two year mark eh? Maybe you should stick around a while, you might learn something.

Clearly you have a problem with my suggestion that it is NOT necessary to stake a castle nut.

I'm curious as to what experience you are basing your knowledge from. Do you use the AR15 family of rifles in your profession? Do you build these rifles for a living? Have you used these rifles in combat?

I'd like to know what qualifies you to call me out?

 

[MWL]

The ass comment was directed at mmattockx, not you.

But you have proven my point. You know, the one where I said that just because someone has been on a forum a while, and has made a couple of thousand posts, people (and themselves) automatically think that they know more than someone who joined yesterday, and only has a few posts.

Now, if you would be so kind as to dazzle us with your brillance, why is it that civillian owned ARs don't require their receiver end plates to be proerly tightened and staked?

Is it because you assume that just like you, they don't use them very much, or run them very hard? This thread shows that all it takes is a couple of trips to the range and probably a box or two of ammo to have the castle nut back off enough to cause an issue:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609898

In the current thread, the OP bought a gun that he has no knowledge of, and it turns out that the original stock was probably probably replaced, or the lower was built from scratch. You willing to guarantee him that the same thing will not happen to him because he is a civillian?

As for myself, I have been building, selling and teaching the use and maintenance of ARs for the past decade or so. I am also a member of a few other forums where the mods and SMEs know a thing or two about the platform, and I learn everything I can by following the advice I gave you.

Regards.

Mark

 

[mmattockx]

The ass comment was directed at mmattockx, not you.

Since this was directed at me, I would like to know why? I am new to black rifles and have never seen any comments on why there are two different buffer tube sizes. If I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked.


Mark

 

[angryeyebrows]

But you have proven my point. You know, the one where I said that just because someone has been on a forum a while, and has made a couple of thousand posts, people (and themselves) automatically think that they know more than someone who joined yesterday, and only has a few posts.

You're right. A high post count does not equal knowledge. I don't consider myself to have a high post count. I do however look out for newer members giving other members advice. I didn't say you were wrong, but if you tell someone that they need to do something to there AR or it'll fall apart on them, they are gonna listen and by doing so, possibly cause damage to their rifle. Does the OP even have the means to properly tighten his castle nut? Does he have access to a vice, lower receiver block and stock wrench? Now both you and I know that it is clearly better to have a properly staked on castle nut, but the bottom line is, that it is not necessary!

Now, if you would be so kind as to dazzle us with your brillance, why is it that civillian owned ARs don't require their receiver end plates to be proerly tightened and staked?

Is it because you assume that just like you, they don't use them very much, or run them very hard?

In the current thread, the OP bought a gun that he has no knowledge of, and it turns out that the original stock was probably probably replaced, or the lower was built from scratch. You willing to guarantee him that the same thing will not happen to him because he is a civillian?

I like how you crap all over me for making a generalization about low post count members, but you yourself then go on to assume that just because I seem to fit some stereotype you have in your brain about forum "experts", that I don't use my rifles or run them hard. Brilliant!

Just because someone is a civilian doesn't mean they don't require the same level of durability and reliability in their equipment that a professional would. I fully agree with you on that. The ironic part is that if you only new me on a personal level, I think you would have a good laugh.

As for myself, I have been building, selling and teaching the use and maintenance of ARs for the past decade or so. I am also a member of a few other forums where the mods and SMEs know a thing or two about the platform, and I learn everything I can by following the advice I gave you.

Well that's neat. So you don't make your living around firearms then? Well I do. I use them in my profession, I build them for a living and I have relied on them as a life line in combat. So I take offense when someone calls me out on correct advise just because they like making a stink out of nothing.