CZ858 vs Win94 for bush carbine

I too have had this thought. I don't have a win 3030. But I do have a savage 99 300. Close enough I guess.

As for shooting thru brush I thought I read somewhere that slower and heavier is better and between the 2, 123 vs 170 grain I guess the 3030 would be marginally better. But quicker follow up shots make the difference here for me. Also you can reload 150 grain into the X39 and make it much closer debate.
I agree in all areas you mentioned especially the magazine. So much faster loading. Also I feel it is a much better carry gun. As for ammo really if you buy a few boxes of hunting loads when you find them ammo isn't really an issue. Plus you have surplus to practice with so ammo is a plus in my mind cost wise and availability.
So what's the negative of my cz? You said it!! I prob have about $1800++ into it as it sits now. Bit more then a win 94 even if its scoped. Haha. But wants more fun to talk to your hunting buddies about. ;)
And you already have both so price isn't a problem anymore for you.

Have you hugged your CZ today?? ;)
Now go get something with it and show us. Lol
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I have a feeling he was using the wrong kinda ammo. He said he was only about 50 feet away and dropped the thing.Don't know where the hit was. Yah I was stunned aswell. I don't hunt but have heard 7.62x39 is alittle light for moose. Buddy lives in saskatchewan.
 
I'm $750.00 into mine, but for $.18 / shot I more than make up for it. 30-30 trades price for availability. There's probably not a gun store in Canada/USA that doesn't carry that caliber. I think the average cost is about $17.50 for a box of 20, still not bad though. They cost about the same to reload, about $.45 / round for good hunting ammo. For factory hunting ammo, the 7.62x39 is all over the board. MFS has 125g soft points for $11.49 / 20, Hornady's flex tip stuff is a bit more, and S&B/PRVI sell for something around $17.00 per $20.00

7.62x39 you can use cheap FMJ's, but 30-30 you can use lead cast. If you absolutely must, you can use 30cal bullets in your 858. I've done it, but that's not going to be talked about in this thread haha
 
I like the banana mag. I front carry muzzle low and to the right mag up and I can grab hold of the mag and guide the rifle thru when I come to tight spots. Also that carry allows you to cover the safety and also have a quick view of its position.
Rocket Surgery said:
Yeah, I don't hunt with a 30 round banana mag, I have the paratrooper 10 round mag from Wolverine. I took the gun out once but never shot anything. I brought both mags, and found the 30 rounder to be quite the annoyance.

So can anyone come up with something that I'm missing?
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* It's folding and smaller than the Win94
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Who ever said that the 94 was too big a rifle?

* It's semi auto
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You plan on missing 4 times before connecting?

* Mag fed.
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Moderately faster as deer on the roadwide won't hang around all day for you to get more than one shot off

* Pistol grip
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Chop Pot for speed as compared to a straight stock

* Synthetic furniture
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won't make you faster or more accurate but somewhat more weather resistant

* Ease of cleaning after getting soaked.
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Absolute win for the 858

what does the Win94 have on the 858? They both really only have one bullet weight, 125g vs 170g. Both of which are more than capable on black bear or deer.
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In reality they're both good iron-sighted rifles. Comparable in power and, given equal bullet construction, comparable performance on game. Advantage to the x39 as you can use pointed bullets but there aren't many available to handloaders.

and about the only argument (which I think is wrong) that they make is that the 170g RN bullet punches through bush better.
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I agree, dumb argument. But the 170 gr FP will perform better on game (given similar construction) as it has a higher sectional density that the lower weight bullets from the 7.62x39

For a close-range rifle I don't know that you can go wrong with either. I've not shot an 858 or it's ilk in many, many moons, but I wouldn't feel bad about using one in the bush. I'd probably still embrace my Fudd roots and go with the M94 if I was given a choice between the two, but it would be hard to say that one was better than the other, IMO.
 
zelly_101 said:
I have a feeling he was using the wrong kinda ammo. He said he was only about 50 feet away and dropped the thing.Don't know where the hit was. Yah I was stunned aswell. I don't hunt but have heard 7.62x39 is alittle light for moose. Buddy lives in saskatchewan.
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A buddy of mine flattened a monster moose with his Ruger M77 in 7.62x39. Don't kid yourself, it's got all the jam you need for moose if you shoot well. If you shoot like a donkey it doesn't matter what caliber bullet you smash into him.
 
So yes we agree ammo is not an issue. Although you can also replace the fmj on the X39 surplus with hunting bullets if you are set up for it on the cheep. Which isn't possible with the 3030. Its still coorisive but will put the meat down. :). Plus you can sell off the fmj bullets after too if you don't want them.
Rocket Surgery said:
I'm $750.00 into mine, but for $.18 / shot I more than make up for it. 30-30 trades price for availability. There's probably not a gun store in Canada/USA that doesn't carry that caliber. I think the average cost is about $17.50 for a box of 20, still not bad though. They cost about the same to reload, about $.45 / round for good hunting ammo. For factory hunting ammo, the 7.62x39 is all over the board. MFS has 125g soft points for $11.49 / 20, Hornady's flex tip stuff is a bit more, and S&B/PRVI sell for something around $17.00 per $20.00

7.62x39 you can use cheap FMJ's, but 30-30 you can use lead cast. If you absolutely must, you can use 30cal bullets in your 858. I've done it, but that's not going to be talked about in this thread haha
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BigUglyMan said:
A buddy of mine flattened a monster moose with his Ruger M77 in 7.62x39. Don't kid yourself, it's got all the jam you need for moose if you shoot well. If you shoot like a donkey it doesn't matter what caliber bullet you smash into him.
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haha yah. I only hunt trees and cut them down with ammo. Was suprised to see what the mosin and 858 could shoot through. You where not safe behind trees in ww2........ Get an 858 you will not regret it. We were getting 3/5 hits at a door size gong at 500 yards. Spanked my brothers 308. m14(norinco):D
 
Im an Albertan so I'm going to go with recommending a bolt rifle :p

Serious it's a tough call. I would think the 94 would be a little faster to the shoulder, but the 858 has a faster follow up shot if need be. I would go with the 858 simply because it is far easier to strip and that's something you're going to have to do when it's wet out.

I hunt in the wide open, I used a .30-30 pump gun once when I didn't have a rifle. Aside from that I don't think I'd ever hunt with anything other than a bolt so take my advice with a grain of salt.
 
cam1936 said:
Im an Albertan so I'm going to go with recommending a bolt rifle :p

Serious it's a tough call. I would think the 94 would be a little faster to the shoulder, but the 858 has a faster follow up shot if need be. I would go with the 858 simply because it is far easier to strip and that's something you're going to have to do when it's wet out.

I hunt in the wide open, I used a .30-30 pump gun once when I didn't have a rifle. Aside from that I don't think I'd ever hunt with anything other than a bolt so take my advice with a grain of salt.
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I never once asked for advice, and this thread has nothing to do with bolt guns. I asked if people who have experience with the CZ858 and Win94 could tell me which they think is the better rugged bush platform.
 
I think given the weather factor, the 858 might be the better choice. As stated earlier, theyre just too close to call much of a winner. They both got the power, speed and accuracy you need so the only other factor is how they hold up. I shot my 858 in pouring rain, got it nice and hot with bout 160 rounds, stuffed it back in a soft case and drove around the rest of the day (5 or 6 hours) with it behind the seat of my truck and there wasnt a speck of rust on it. The 94 just requires more maintenence to protect from the elements, not much of an argument to seperate the 2.
 
I own both. I'd personally go 858 on the rainy days and 94 when its nice out if I was on the wet coast. The 94 carries better in the hand but the 858 with a sling isn't bad either.
 
I think you need to look around a bit more. Commercial ammo for the 30-30 is available from 125 to 170 gr. There's two Leverevolution offerings,and even a Barnes triple shock one,along with many others.
 
I'd take the 94 personally , however i have a 94 and a sks and i'd like to take deer with both. I think my bear this year is gonna go down to the 7.62

totally comes down to personal preference
 
Buy a 7600 Carbine in 30/06. Top it off with a 1x4 or 1.5x5 in low rings and it will head and shoulders in all respects over the two wannabees you mention.

This one's a 308, but you get the picture.

1. Detachable mag.
2. Handles awesome.
3. Accurate very.
4. Easily scoped.
5. Much/cheap ammo, everywhere!
6. 30/06 is better chambering. More flexibility.
7. Dependable

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SuperCub said:
Buy a 7600 Carbine in 30/06. Top it off with a 1x4 or 1.5x5 in low rings and it will head and shoulders in all respects over the two wannabees you mention.

This one's a 308, but you get the picture.

1. Detachable mag.
2. Handles awesome.
3. Accurate very.
4. Easily scoped.
5. Much/cheap ammo, everywhere!
6. 30/06 is better chambering. More flexibility.
7. Dependable

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+1

Really good deer gun combo , specially if you hunt with a pump shotgun too
 
I have a few 7600's/760's and they are great guns. I also have a .30-06 carbine, but I am pretty sure that the initial point was between the model 94 and CZ858. (I do agree that the 7600 carbine is a superior tool for just about any job in North America.)
 
Yeah but when that thing gets soaked, do you need the mastercraft anniversary socket kit to open that thing? Can you shoot that thing prone as easily as the 858?

Sure that's a great bush carbine, but it would be great if you could rate it against the Win94 or 858 instead of saying "Get this coz I think it's dope".
 
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