870P worth the extra $?
- Thread starter lil_juiced_coupe
- Start date
From Remington literature:
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It
was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870
functionality. All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic
differences. It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform
for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870
platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very
important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police. To our customers
in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing
performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance.
Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual
inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY.
This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the
same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure
top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer
magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5
and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it
will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive
feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking
mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism
can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the
appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police
shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without
physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize
either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a
compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction
with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock
down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes
and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal
cast which are utilized on the Express models.
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It
was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870
functionality. All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic
differences. It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform
for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870
platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very
important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police. To our customers
in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing
performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance.
Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual
inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY.
This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the
same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure
top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer
magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5
and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it
will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive
feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking
mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism
can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the
appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police
shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without
physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize
either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a
compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction
with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock
down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes
and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal
cast which are utilized on the Express models.
I've tried to buy an 870 Express several times, but each time I haven't been able to get past the roughly finished exterior that looks like my four year old attacked it with 2-grit sand paper.....
I'll gladly pay the extra for an 870P.
I'll gladly pay the extra for an 870P.
Wrong!
The police model is different in all the ways that count for a gun that needs to be reliable in a combat situation. Stay tuned for an upcoming podcast episode recorded at Tactical Ordinance that breaks down the 870's and gives the facts on the different models.
Oh, and it is worth the extra $ if you want that durability and reliability.
- Location
- Montréal, Québec
Only if you can get it with the folding stock 
The best way to make the decision is to have an Express HD and a Police and examine them both at the same time. Look over both guns inside and out, work the action a few times, dry fire if possible and then reach your own conclusion. If you can't tell the difference buy the Express and enjoy. If you can tell the difference then buy the Police. IMO the Police is worth the extra cost. YMMV.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
the P model is arguably the cream of the crop of the 870s, but prices have risen quite a bit and IMO the ~$960 (w/tax) price tag is getting a little hard to justify. but then again the 870 'tactical' - which is basically a blinged-out bottom-end Express isnt cheap anymore either. i never thought id see a glorified Express hit the $700-800+ price bracket
IMO, if you want a quality shotgun and money isnt an object, buy an 870P - you wont regret it.
if you are on a budget and want something much higher quality than an Express, buy a cheap used 2 3/4" Wingmaster and do the 3" conversion on it. you can do other customizations as budget allows. for a 'tactical' shotgun i wouldnt even bother refinishing it and would just daub some cold blue on the rivet heads (or dont even bother converting it - i cant remember the last time i shot a 3" shell from any of my tactical guns).
IMO, if you want a quality shotgun and money isnt an object, buy an 870P - you wont regret it.
if you are on a budget and want something much higher quality than an Express, buy a cheap used 2 3/4" Wingmaster and do the 3" conversion on it. you can do other customizations as budget allows. for a 'tactical' shotgun i wouldnt even bother refinishing it and would just daub some cold blue on the rivet heads (or dont even bother converting it - i cant remember the last time i shot a 3" shell from any of my tactical guns).
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
heres a comparison of just the external finishes:
both the Grizz and Express will be covered in surface rust after as little as 6-8 hrs in a trunk unless you oil the hell out of them.
both the Grizz and Express will be covered in surface rust after as little as 6-8 hrs in a trunk unless you oil the hell out of them.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
$699 sounds like a pretty good price.
i honestly cant believe that people are paying upwards of $500 for the 870 'Tacticals' - just Expresses in disguise. about the only reason i can see to buy one is the choked short barrel.
- Location
- Center of the Universe
$699 is a smoking pricin on a "P". Most I've seen are over $800.
They are "nicer" but I bought my latest 870 Tactical for $370 brand new from a local store so that's a helluva lot cheaper than an $850 "P" version.
They are "nicer" but I bought my latest 870 Tactical for $370 brand new from a local store so that's a helluva lot cheaper than an $850 "P" version.
The best 870s both in terms of quality and price are used older Wingmaster and 'P's, those are the guns that built the 870's reputation. It's not like they're uncommon either, there are few guns easier to find in great condition in the North American market.
The last one I looked at sitting in a local gun store was an awesome 90%+ condition '60s or '70s Wingmaster going for all of $170 and could have probably been haggled down some more. With so many guns like that out there I'm surprised that Remington is still able to sell so many new ones, especially Express models.
The last one I looked at sitting in a local gun store was an awesome 90%+ condition '60s or '70s Wingmaster going for all of $170 and could have probably been haggled down some more. With so many guns like that out there I'm surprised that Remington is still able to sell so many new ones, especially Express models.
Last edited:
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
Great post.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
marketing has convinced people that a 2 3/4" gun is useless, and you need to get rid of it and get a 3" or 3 1/2" gun. 90% of people these days would take a 3" 870 Express over a 2 3/4" Wingmaster
dimensionally the guns are exactly the same - the 3" guns just have a longer ejector fitted.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3786279&postcount=3
if you are able to re-peen the existing rivets, or you dont care about the rivets showing after the conversion it can be done very cheaply. personally, id rather have a Wingmaster with 2 rivets showing than an Express, Express Tactical, etc. but like i keep saying - 3" in a tactical gun is highly overrated anyways, so you could just leave it at 2 3/4" and your d*ck wont fall off, I promise.
