Help me decide on a 1700/1800 repro flinter (or minie rifle)

H Wally

H Wally

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I'm looking to buy a repro muzzle loader that's historically accurate. Mainly looking for a flinter, but a rifle designed for minie balls would also interest me.

What would you guys recommend? I like loyalist arms because they're quite affordable and have a good reputation, but simply can't decide what make or model of gun to buy.... I like the besses, but perhaps a french fusil, or trade gun, or minie rifle....

So, anyone have a repro muzzle loader that they like?
 
H Wally said:
I'm looking to buy a repro muzzle loader that's historically accurate. Mainly looking for a flinter, but a rifle designed for minie balls would also interest me.
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Mini balls were not invented until the late 1830s or early 1840s, so that rules them out. All of the historically accurate guns I would recommend are semi custom or custom and probably start in the $1500 range. Your other more economical option would be a quality kit from someone like Pecatonica or TOW although my impression is that you are still looking at $800 or so by the time you receive it

cheers mooncoon
 
A gent I know has an extremely nice French Charleville. It almost has to be a repro but what a beauty it is...he doesn't know who made it.

I have a Miroku Japanese made Short Land Brown Bess...that is one high quality, beautifully made item. Lock is forged, everything is made with typical Japanese quality. Japanese cherry wood.

Given a choice between it and any of the current crop of Indian made repros...there is no choice.

But there are those that really like the Loyalist Long Land Bess. Loyalist is a good company.

Pedersoli's have their foibles but they are certainly good looking items.
 
I have owned a Pedresoli bess' and an Indian Charleville. Of the two, the Charleville was easier to shoot due to the shape of the stock. If you have never fired a Bess' be warned for the shape of the stock does not lend itself well to aiming. It forces you to place your cheek on top of the stock making for a very uncomfortable experience. Both guns are large caliber (75 and 69) so recoil is up there. Why not go for a trade gun? 62 caliber and smaller is my recommendation. Anyway...my experience with the Indian made guns has been very positive. Loyalist makes a copy of a French Fusil de chase and a British trade gun that might fit the bill for you.

Cheers. Steve.
 
Another vote on a trade gun, easy to feed, and you'd be surprised at the acuracy.
Personally I have a Jackie Brown, Carolina fowler (l hand) bought it primarily because it's harder to find lefties. The fit and finish isn't as good as the more expensive ones, but it has a large siler lock, and a cheek piece that I swear was custom made for me :D and it was only $750 new.
 
mooncoon said:
Mini balls were not invented until the late 1830s or early 1840s, so that rules them out. All of the historically accurate guns I would recommend are semi custom or custom and probably start in the $1500 range. Your other more economical option would be a quality kit from someone like Pecatonica or TOW although my impression is that you are still looking at $800 or so by the time you receive it

cheers mooncoon
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Fair enough - a kit would certainly give me stuff to do in my spare time, I assume the kits could be finished with rudimentary carving tools and some files? I pretty much don't have anything else here with me.

Also, I wouldn't mind a percussion gun as long as it fired a minie ball. Unless it fires a minie rifle though, it'd have to be a flinter.

cantom said:
A gent I know has an extremely nice French Charleville. It almost has to be a repro but what a beauty it is...he doesn't know who made it.

I have a Miroku Japanese made Short Land Brown Bess...that is one high quality, beautifully made item. Lock is forged, everything is made with typical Japanese quality. Japanese cherry wood.

Given a choice between it and any of the current crop of Indian made repros...there is no choice.

But there are those that really like the Loyalist Long Land Bess. Loyalist is a good company.

Pedersoli's have their foibles but they are certainly good looking items.
Click to expand...

Hmm - what would a miroku bess run someone these days? Are they still made or do you have to find a used one?

I was a bit worried about the manufacturers of loyalist's guns, but their reputation as a dealer makes me feel a bit better.

stevejones said:
I have owned a Pedresoli bess' and an Indian Charleville. Of the two, the Charleville was easier to shoot due to the shape of the stock. If you have never fired a Bess' be warned for the shape of the stock does not lend itself well to aiming. It forces you to place your cheek on top of the stock making for a very uncomfortable experience. Both guns are large caliber (75 and 69) so recoil is up there. Why not go for a trade gun? 62 caliber and smaller is my recommendation. Anyway...my experience with the Indian made guns has been very positive. Loyalist makes a copy of a French Fusil de chase and a British trade gun that might fit the bill for you.

Cheers. Steve.
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I've had a chance to fire one and rather enjoyed it - not a ton of experience with flinters in general, but would like to change that.


nessy357 said:
Another vote on a trade gun, easy to feed, and you'd be surprised at the acuracy.
Personally I have a Jackie Brown, Carolina fowler (l hand) bought it primarily because it's harder to find lefties. The fit and finish isn't as good as the more expensive ones, but it has a large siler lock, and a cheek piece that I swear was custom made for me :D and it was only $750 new.
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david doyle said:
A real simple trade gun with a pleasing brown finish.
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Trade guns sound pretty decent. I like the whole large bore recognizeable flinter, but I guess I'm also pretty cheap, so using less powder and lead is a definite pro.... Hmmmm.
 
There are two sources for Baker rifles.One is the RifleShoppe where to can by a parts set and build your own or have a custom smith build it.These part sets are cast from the originals are high quality and cost around $1100US .They are not an easy build and not for a first time builder.Total cost from a custom builder around 2 to 3 thousand.The other alternative is one of the India made Bakers.These are in smoothbore and would require having a proper rifled barrel fitted which adds to the cost.The quality is no where near the RifleShoppe gun .I have one of the RifleShoppe Bakers and it is a thing to behold,as of yet I haven t fired it ,I m saving that pleasure for when I retire in a couple of years something to play with so to speak.Here is a pic of my Baker.

BakerRifleFullRight.jpg
 
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H Wally said:
Fair enough - a kit would certainly give me stuff to do in my spare time, I assume the kits could be finished with rudimentary carving tools and some files? I pretty much don't have anything else here with me.
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I got a Sitting Fox poor boy kit and its been a real job, the wood was only about 75% done with barrel inletting about 80% complete, all the hardware needed to be finished and the barrel came with out lugs, sights, or breech plug fit, i've got around 40 hours in the gun so far with another 20-30 to go.
with the extra price with shipping, tooks and customs/duty I think i'd just pony up the extra cash and get a finished gun next time
 
H Wally said:
.....Fair enough - a kit would certainly give me stuff to do in my spare time, I assume the kits could be finished with rudimentary carving tools and some files? I pretty much don't have anything else here with me.....
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First muzzleloading rifle I built was done with minimal hand tools. Bought a Numrich .36 barrel, a trigger guard casting and a Dixie flintlock. Lock was so bad I eventually converted to percussion. Made all the other parts, including the breechplug which I fitted. I cut the stock came out of a maple board with a cord tensionned saw I made. Did all the inletting with chisels I made. Shot fine.
Some kits are pretty much finished guns needing cosmetic work. Others are collections of unfinished parts.
Lots of choices out there now. Back in the '60s when I made my first one choices were more limited.
Narrow the field. Decide the type/style of gun that you want, then work toward that goal.
You could put together a flint rifle that would shoot both balls and Minies.
Smoothbore muskets/fusils are in a different category, have the great advantage that they can be used as shotguns.
 
H Wally said:
Hmm - what would a miroku bess run someone these days? Are they still made or do you have to find a used one?
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They haven't made them in like 30 years. But, if you watch the ads in the US they do come up for sale used. Price range is like $700-$900.

But they are top quality, and I love the Japanese cherry wood.

I also found a source for parts for them.
 
You could put together a flint rifle that would shoot both balls and Minies.
Smoothbore muskets/fusils are in a different category, have the great advantage that they can be used as shotguns.
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I notice a succession of smooth bored Flints going through the EE. Not sure why anyone would prefer them over a rifle?

Smoothbores are pretty limited for accuracy no?

When the British Army had a whole army firing them in unison for volley fire, accuracy wasn't an issue...but for any practical, aimed use, rifling is pretty useful!

Yes, I know you can hit well out to 50 yards or so with a smooth...and Weapontech has an awesome target he shot with his Bess.

At my club, you actually need to hit the targets...too depressing having a musket that can't hit.
 
I was contemplating the same things. I came up with the idea of using a rifled choke tube in a 20ga smooth bore flintlock and other chokes as well after having a smith ream and tap the muzzle. Perhaps a rifled slug casting mold instead of a mini?
 
ciphery said:
I was contemplating the same things. I came up with the idea of using a rifled choke tube in a 20ga smooth bore flintlock and other chokes as well after having a smith ream and tap the muzzle. Perhaps a rifled slug casting mold instead of a mini?
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You might lose a point or three for originality...but for function it's not a bad idea!

But, the other idea is, buy a rifle in the first place!
 
cantom said:
You might lose a point or three for originality...but for function it's not a bad idea!

But, the other idea is, buy a rifle in the first place!
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My reasoning was versatility. Shot,ball,mini/slug let's see you legally turkey hunt with a 54cal rifle or practically small game hunt for that matter. I mean you can try to hit the running rabbit or flushing partridge in the head but....
And deer hunting can be done at 60 yards or less with a heavy load of 00 or ball but again its not optimal.
My solution allows a nearly original,period appearing. Muzzle loading gun to take on the abilities of a modern shotgun. No one will notice until they look down the muzzle.
 
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