yes or no..Glock or Colt 1911- which has the better service life???
- Thread starter speros
- Start date
Like variations of everything, someone is willing to buy them. Kind of like designer jeans, or shoes, and cars.
No doubt the 1911 has a following, but outside the US that following is insignificant and includes very few LE or MIL units. As much as I love my Glocks I do enjoy 1911's. A great piece of history that really propelled the semi auto into the mainstream. The fact is, the 1911 just isn't the wonder gun it was a hundred years ago.
TDC
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Very few, if any, things that started production 100 years ago are at the top of their market share. I'd think that the 1911 is about the most prominent/significant in this regard...
why do glock guys seem to hate grip safety's and thumb safety's and hammers?
you do realize they can be removed and/or operate without them if modified to.
i wouldn't be surprised if you could order a 1911 from a custom shop without any of them EVER being installed or the frame and slide being machined for them.... it wouldn't look much different but it would be a pain to assemble without the grip safety cutout.
the grip safety is not "operated".. if you are holding the gun like you are supposed to (holding the gun firm enough not to drop it) with ANY gun.. its "disengaged"...not a terminology thing...
a thumb safety is a great way to not shoot yourself when holstering....
either gun needs to be racked to get a round in the chamber.. so a hammer is for looks or self confidence or any reason you like... but there is no downside to a hammer. 1911's are at their safest with a thumb safety engaged and that requires the hammer to be at least at half ####.
hammer cocking and its presumption to add to draw time is a fallacy at best and a lie (to be accurate).
on trigger comparison the 1911 wins hands down... but both lose to the CZ's as they will shoot their fist shot like a glock and every successive shot like a 1911 as the trigger will stay back at a very short pull length even if you remove your finger.
the maintenance argument is also moot. NOBODY i repeat NOBODY in their right mind will ever operate any gun in such an un-maintained state as what some claim their gun is capable of...
if you want to bury your glock go ahead but i can do the same with my 1911 and cz's because they have yet to outlaw grease and ziplock bags or coffee cans or Tupperware... the assumption that the need to bury or use an unprotected AND buried handgun is foolish at best... and all require parts replacements for reliability reasons at certain round counts (springs etc).
besides my shotgun will be last to be confiscated and it makes the biggest holes at long or short distances and its a semi.
NO argument for 1911 over glock over 1911 has ANY weight.
it always boils down to which is more popular.
when they come out with a new design made of transparent superconductor aluminum, (and its the new sliced bread) people who own both a 1911 and a glock will buy 1 of those too.. will glock sales suffer?.. will 1911 sales suffer?
no... by then the glock will have plateaued just like the 1911 did (before the 100yr anniversary fiasco).
NEITHER of which is a reason to buy ANY gun.
p.s. if norinco made a glock copy would it still be better or worse than the norinco 1911?... i think they do... i know their 1911 is good regardless of what the "more money than talent/brains" crowd would like to have you think. people who say otherwise dont own a file sandpaper or have any knowhow or have the $150 in parts to upgrade a norinco
you do realize they can be removed and/or operate without them if modified to.
i wouldn't be surprised if you could order a 1911 from a custom shop without any of them EVER being installed or the frame and slide being machined for them.... it wouldn't look much different but it would be a pain to assemble without the grip safety cutout.
the grip safety is not "operated".. if you are holding the gun like you are supposed to (holding the gun firm enough not to drop it) with ANY gun.. its "disengaged"...not a terminology thing...
a thumb safety is a great way to not shoot yourself when holstering....
either gun needs to be racked to get a round in the chamber.. so a hammer is for looks or self confidence or any reason you like... but there is no downside to a hammer. 1911's are at their safest with a thumb safety engaged and that requires the hammer to be at least at half ####.
hammer cocking and its presumption to add to draw time is a fallacy at best and a lie (to be accurate).
on trigger comparison the 1911 wins hands down... but both lose to the CZ's as they will shoot their fist shot like a glock and every successive shot like a 1911 as the trigger will stay back at a very short pull length even if you remove your finger.
the maintenance argument is also moot. NOBODY i repeat NOBODY in their right mind will ever operate any gun in such an un-maintained state as what some claim their gun is capable of...
if you want to bury your glock go ahead but i can do the same with my 1911 and cz's because they have yet to outlaw grease and ziplock bags or coffee cans or Tupperware... the assumption that the need to bury or use an unprotected AND buried handgun is foolish at best... and all require parts replacements for reliability reasons at certain round counts (springs etc).
besides my shotgun will be last to be confiscated and it makes the biggest holes at long or short distances and its a semi.
NO argument for 1911 over glock over 1911 has ANY weight.
it always boils down to which is more popular.
when they come out with a new design made of transparent superconductor aluminum, (and its the new sliced bread) people who own both a 1911 and a glock will buy 1 of those too.. will glock sales suffer?.. will 1911 sales suffer?
no... by then the glock will have plateaued just like the 1911 did (before the 100yr anniversary fiasco).
NEITHER of which is a reason to buy ANY gun.
p.s. if norinco made a glock copy would it still be better or worse than the norinco 1911?... i think they do... i know their 1911 is good regardless of what the "more money than talent/brains" crowd would like to have you think. people who say otherwise dont own a file sandpaper or have any knowhow or have the $150 in parts to upgrade a norinco
Actually, there are plenty of good arguments for either 1911s or Glocks...it just depends on your priorities.
In fact the grip safety IS operated...while this is normally easy to do, one of the most common places to be shot is in your strong hand. People who have been shot in their strong hand often can't get the grip safety to work...this happens. So a grip safety is a POTENTIAL issue.
A thumb safety is not a bad thing IMO...some Glocks were made with them as well, for that matter. Are they necessary? Maybe not. If you're careful reholstering your pistol, it's probably fine. On the other hand, anyone sufficiently trained with a pistol to have the right to use it ought to find that the thumb safety is so second nature, they don't realize they're using it. It's just part of the draw. So I don't see any problem with thumb safeties.
Hammers...well, there are downsides to hammers, for sure. They're exposed, for one. DA guns with hammers generally require long trigger pulls, and frequently result in long resets, which I personally can't stand. But mainly the fact that they are exposed machinery is the thing to worry about on a fighting gun. Not ideal!
The trigger is the best feature of the 1911. It is the best trigger on any fighting gun, ever. That is about 80% of why the 1911 has continued to exist as a fighting pistol, IMO. The trigger is so good, with its consistent, clean, light break, that anyone can shoot it well.
The trigger on CZs is, in my opinion, mediocre. It's workable, but DA/SA has had its day. Under pressure, people tend to drag the first shot, or snatch the second. Both the Glock and 1911 are better in this regard, because the single most important thing in shooting well is CONSISTENCY. Trigger reset on Glocks is also fairly short and easily short enough to pick up the reset during the recoil phase, so not a big issue there.
As far as maintenance goes, the real issue is not about playing stupid games with burying guns. The issue is the maintenance required to keep a gun running over the course of its service life.
To get a Glock 17 to 50,000 rounds will probably require changing out a couple of springs, but may not.
To get a 1911 to 50,000 rounds will require EXTENSIVE work.
To get a G17 to cycle with JHPs will require nothing. To get it to cycle with every type of 9mm you can buy will require nothing - unless it's a Gen 4, of course...we have no idea what they will cycle reliably yet.
To get a 1911 to cycle with JHPs and every type of .45 acp you can buy off the counter at your local shop may require nothing, and it may require spending $500 at a 1911-specific gunsmith. It may require multiple trips to that gunsmith. It may never happen.
If you need to work on your Glock, you spend $25 and buy every single component for the thing, and replace them on your coffee table in three minutes.
If you need to work on your 1911, you need extensive experience and understanding of how it works and why, and you need hours to fit parts and tune extraction. That's just the way it is. If it's a toy it doesn't matter so much, but if you NEED it to work, that's an issue for most people.
SO: if you are after a particular trigger AND prepared to deal with the maintenance issues AND you don't mind the expense, a 1911 can be a superb machine. I love 1911s. I carried a Series 70 daily at one time (not in this country of course).
If you are after a pistol which just runs, and you don't need to worry about dicking with it, because it will just go bang every time, the Glock is a better choice.
So there are plenty of good arguments for one over the other. I like both of these pistols. I own both. (more Glocks than 1911s at the moment, though).
But I'm aware of the advantages and limitations of each platform.
Being a lefty with fairly small hands I actually think the slide release being where it is is an advantage. Same with the mag release. I've seen many a right hander have to release their grip and change the position of their hand to manipulate the controls.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well we could have gotten to this whole summation earlier in the thread. I think that I most of the points were made but not as articulately...
both depending on what you're looking for. I've had more problems with 1911's than any other pistol. I've bought my first glock and put about 4000 rounds through it since last month without a single hickup.
I can now shoot my 1911 a lot better than I ever used to.
Its all what you prefer, me? I'm kinda liking the Glock more and more everyday.
My one word vote: both.
I can now shoot my 1911 a lot better than I ever used to.
Its all what you prefer, me? I'm kinda liking the Glock more and more everyday.
My one word vote: both.
Late to the party but I figured I'd add my bit.
I know of at least one 1911 past 110,000 where the only maintenance was spring replacement, and the only cleaning was a hose down of WD40 after each range session.
I'm sure a Glock could do that as well, but why wear sweatpants when you can afford a tuxedo? 
I know of at least one 1911 past 110,000 where the only maintenance was spring replacement, and the only cleaning was a hose down of WD40 after each range session.
I'm sure a Glock could do that as well, but why wear sweatpants when you can afford a tuxedo?
Late to the party but I figured I'd add my bit.
I know of at least one 1911 past 110,000 where the only maintenance was spring replacement, and the only cleaning was a hose down of WD40 after each range session.
I'm sure a Glock could do that as well, but why wear sweatpants when you can afford a tuxedo?
That is extraordinarily rare, although theoretically possible, assuming you accept the extractor as a "spring" which, technically, it is. A normal "just buy a new gun" count for a 1911 is 50-75,000 rounds, and during that time, you should probably expect to replace plungers 6 to 10 times, maybe the barrel due to lug wear, or even the bore if you shoot hot ammo, safeties begin to crack, frames as well on some guns, holes begin to oval out...
You may get away with more if you shoot IPSC pop-gun loads, of course.
However, I have personally shot half a dozen Glocks which have gone over 100,000 with nothing other that spring replacement.
Can it be done with a 1911? Yes, on freakishly rare circumstances.
Can it be done with a G17? Yes, and it is done, all the time.
I am not at all down on the 1911. Just don't pretend it is what it isn't.
And joe_banana has a point...some lefties end up with a protocol that is at least as fast as the way the designers pictured it happening, if not faster.
You can apply some of the lefty tricks as a righty if they work better for you...use the support hand to work the mag release or slide stop/release/whatever you like to call it. I have big hands and don't have an issue with it but if a lefty can do it faster than the "factory method" then the support hand is also an option.
And it further demonstrates how the placement of the controls isn't really that big a deal.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Like misanthropist said "Be aware of the advantages and limitations of each platform."
thats the bottom line.
and shouldn't we be compairing a Glock 21 to the 1911 or a 9mm 1911 to a Clock17/19 as far as wear and tear on the platforum? doesn't sound fair if you don't.
thats the bottom line.
and shouldn't we be compairing a Glock 21 to the 1911 or a 9mm 1911 to a Clock17/19 as far as wear and tear on the platforum? doesn't sound fair if you don't.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Makes sense....the OP did not specify caliber. Everyone who responded just assumed 1911 = .45 while Glock = 9mm.
196 responses and all that rhetoric, for naught
The slide lock shouldn't be operated with your thumb, in fact it shouldn't be operated at all. An overhand grasp with your support hand provides the most positive,intuitive and reliable method of loading/reloading your pistol. The mag release is a different duck. Most will have to adjust their grip slightly to access the release with their dominant thumb. An alternate method is to activate the release with your support hand thumb while you're reaching for your replacement magazine.
TDC
