M-305 b

JRW (QOR) said:
Mine is stamped M14s 308, made in 2007.
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Mine is stamped 'M-305B SEMI-AUTO .308 WIN' on the receiver. When I get the tool from Gothmog I will run the .308 Forster guages into the chamber and report on headspace if anyone is interested. I also have the RCBS precision case micrometers, so I will evaluate the case dimension changes between unfired and fired brass.
 
Interesting stampings. Mine is as follows:

M14 .308 2009NNNN
CJA SFLD MICH
NORINCO MADE IN CHINA

Rifle bough new from Badger in 2009. I wonder why it has a US importer's mark on it ? CJA (Southfield, MI) was apparently one of 3 importers of Norinco firearms into the US in the early 90s. Very curious why this marking would be carried forward to present day especially given these rifles have been banned for import into the US since 1994 if memory serves me correct.

Edit: Had chance to inspect a rifle from Marstar's latest batch yesterday against mine. It is *identical* in finish and appearance. I did find that the elevation knob was quite mushy in feel compared to mine but it worked just fine. Trigger was the same in feel. One improvement I did notice was that the stripper clip guide had fewer machining marks than mine. FWIW.
 
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redivivus said:
Interesting stampings. Mine is as follows:

M14 .308 2009NNNN
CJA SFLD MICH
NORINCO MADE IN CHINA

Rifle bough new from Badger in 2009. I wonder why it has a US importer's mark on it ? CJA (Southfield, MI) was apparently one of 3 importers of Norinco firearms into the US in the early 90s. Very curious why this marking would be carried forward to present day especially given these rifles have been banned for import into the US since 1994 if memory serves me correct.

Edit: Had chance to inspect a rifle from Marstar's latest batch yesterday against mine. It is *identical* in finish and appearance. I did find that the elevation knob was quite mushy in feel compared to mine but it worked just fine. Trigger was the same in feel. One improvement I did notice was that the stripper clip guide had fewer machining marks than mine. FWIW.
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Red mine is 2009 stamped identical to yours. I was interested in the importer's stamp as well, but there was no response when I questioned it before. The only thing could say is the Rear sight worked as well as the new USGI Garand sight I installed except the aperture was a little left of center, and i'm not sure if the barrel is over tightened or the flash hider is off a little. Other than these it chews through the ammo and the stripper guide is smooth and works like lightning.
 
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The tool from gothmog arrived yesterday and I easily disassembled the bolt. A check of the head spacing on the brand new M305B with the Forster .308 gauges was quite revealing. Holy cow, it closed on the NO GO (stamped .243 -.308 / 1.634") with a little play to boot and swallowed the FIELD gauge (stamped 1.638") too. It closes just about snugly on the FIELD (it closes easily but is right there) and this cannot be good. Right? I thought so, especially since I was hoping for a head space measurement of between 1.632 and 1.634.

When I reference the Forster gauges in my RCBS case micrometer (in 7mm-08), the NO GO comes up 1.632 while the FIELD comes up 1.636. Given that a case micrometer is not the accurate device the Forster gauges are supposed to be, I would say the difference in the readings is the indicative element here (i.e. .004"), since the difference is, in fact, supposed to be .004"

BTW, since the head space datum lines are all in the same place on .243/7mm-08/.308 I believe I can (and do) use any one of these micrometers for any of these cases.

Thoughts? If I had a set of 7.62x51 NATO gauges, they would tell me this chamber was ideally suited to that cartridge, I know. Any point in even keeping this rifle?

I won't have fired/measured case lengths until I can actually feel safe to fire this thing.

woodlotowner
 
What you are describing is actually tight for a NATO chamber. Shoot it and stop playing with SAAMI gauges which aren't designed for that rifle and vice versa.
 
these chambers are designed using the "M852" chamber specs. You'd be better off throwing out those forster guages and getting the CLYMER guages as they are the correct guages for these rifles.

the 2009 series rifles guage on average between NATO go of 1.634" and Nato field 1.638".
For the most part, it is generally accepted that a 1.638" chamber is still safe for double duty.... meaning nato ammo AND commercial .308 ammo. Getting into and past the 1.640" and up headspace measurements as seen on some of the older imports, I don't recommend .308.
I might try and pick up one of these new m14B rifles just to see if there is any "real" improvements.
I want to see correctly machined and functioning sights that last for years of use, tighter tolerances for machining on the oprod tab. less rough surfaces on the oprod bearing surfaces of the receiver, properly indexed barrels and correctly machined flash hider sight bases and front sight blade. If these things aren't addressed and corrected on these new "B" rifles....... they are again just another chinese rifle with a new name hehehe
 
I have one. Posted in the Marstar thread.

Could be luck of the draw but mine seems pretty much good to go as far as the clinic mods go right out of the box.

Tight oprod guide, tight gas system - just dropped in a new spring guide and we'll see how she shoots. I don't have headspace gauges in 7.62 or .308
 
M14Doctor said:
these chambers are designed using the "M852" chamber specs. You'd be better off throwing out those forster guages and getting the CLYMER guages as they are the correct guages for these rifles
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Doc,

I guess I sounded a little deflated in my post based on my head space findings:)

I can get a set of Clymer gauges (from?) I guess, but are they simply the NATO spec lengths? If they are then I likely do not need them as I have now established, using the Forster gauges, that my M305B chamber is sitting exactly at 1.638" and further measurement would be of no value. Or.....did you mean that Forster gauges are not always what they seem and may not be exactly the length they are stamped?

Your comments would suggest that 1.638" is an acceptable head space for either cartridge. I agree this would be the 'middle ground' if these guns were designed to shoot both cartridges, but I doubt that was Poly's idea.

As I am essentially at the limit of the 'safe' chamber head space for the .308 Winchester cartridge, do you feel it would be safe to shoot starting loads only (I only shoot my own loads in any gun) in .308 Winchester cases using no larger than a 150 grain bullet in this rifle? I'm not going to quote you or anything, I would just be interested in your opinion.

I'm already thinking that any wear on the lugs or the receiver would take me beyond the .308 FIELD spec and that can't be good...

Regards,

Brendan
 
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I would be extremely interested to hear from anyone who has an M305B from the new Marstar batch and has checked head space. Also, I'd be interested to hear opinions on using .308 Winchester cartridges in an M305B (mine) with a head space measuring SAMMI 'FIELD' length of 1.638". I'm pretty sure I don't want to use this gun.
 
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kilo69 said:
There's been a few on here reporting rear sight issues, with stripped threads and or bent elevation shaft. Sadly I know :mad:
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I should get a replacement sight from Marstar next week and i will also receive my new Garand sight from italy. I will install the italian sight and will keep the chinese 1 in case i sell the rifle but everything else is tight and well assembled so pretty sure my M305 will stay with me. Soon as i can, i will try some reload using 150gr bullet and some 150gr factory ammo too, will see how the brass will look.
Jocelyn
 
forster guages are claimed by many folks to be innacurate.
clymer and forster guages and others can bepurchased at brownells. Bolt disassembly tools can be purchased online , as you need to disassemble to check headspace.

don't panic about headspace issues.
I shoot 1.638 chambered m305's , m14s's every couple days, test firing clients rifles.
the ammo i use is federal power shok 150 gr SP.
I check the brass from each client's test fire for inspection for primer deformities , such as backed out primers, primer flow, primer piercing, case bulging, cracking ect ect. , in other words, any sign of pressue due to headspace.

I will continue to use this ammo for test firing any m14 rifle that passes it's safety checks and measures 1.640" and under. As for reloading and case sizing..... I'll leave those discussions to the guys that are far more experienced than I.
 
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Hey Doc,

When you checked the headspace on my rifle, can you tell me what it measured out as?

I fired well over 100 rounds through it before I sent it to you with no signs of excess headspace or overpressure using 150 gr Remington CoreLokt ammo. I plan to reload for this rifle using the same brass and 165 gr Hornady Interlock bullets. I doubt I have anything to worry about, but I thought I'd better check.

Thanks!

shredder (Kent)
 
shredder said:
Hey Doc,

When you checked the headspace on my rifle, can you tell me what it measured out as?

I fired well over 100 rounds through it before I sent it to you with no signs of excess headspace or overpressure using 150 gr Remington CoreLokt ammo. I plan to reload for this rifle using the same brass and 165 gr Hornady Interlock bullets. I doubt I have anything to worry about, but I thought I'd better check.

Thanks!

shredder (Kent)
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i don't remember anything out of the ordinary and she is already enroute. The inspection sheet enclosed with the rifle will have details on headspace. If i have time later i'll pull my copy of your inspection sheet and post the info you seek :D
 
165g interlocks were giving me gas system problems with:

RL15
Varget
IMR 4064
H4895
IMR4895

The accuracy was very good with RL15 though. This was all with DA NATO brass, maybe .308 commercial will have enough pressure to fully cycle the action. When I tried 150g interlocks I shot off 50 rounds no problem but I wasn't checking for groups.

I wouldn't run out and buy more than a hundred 165g bullets without testing first. The FBSP 150g interlocks I'll have more accuracy reports soon, I just have to figure out how to solve my biggest problem on a budget: CHU WOOD

I also have a shaky gas system, so I'm expecting good times once this is sorted out
 
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