Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk1 Rear Sights

johnny1984

johnny1984

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Hi Folks!

I have a question about the sights for my 1943 Maltby Lee Enfield. Presently it has the "L" rear sights that have the 300/600 choices.
I have been trying to get info on the mk4 and mk3 sights but seem unable to get a definitive answer. I know they graduate from 200 yards to 1300 yards on the sliding apeture. What is the yardage on the battle apeture?
I do most of my shooting at 100 yards so I was hoping there was one type that had a 100 yard rating. This aiming at the cajones to hit in the 10 ring is driving me crazy!!
Thanx for your help!
 
johnny1984 said:
Hi Folks!

I have a question about the sights for my 1943 Maltby Lee Enfield. Presently it has the "L" rear sights that have the 300/600 choices.
I have been trying to get info on the mk4 and mk3 sights but seem unable to get a definitive answer. I know they graduate from 200 yards to 1300 yards on the sliding apeture. What is the yardage on the battle apeture?
I do most of my shooting at 100 yards so I was hoping there was one type that had a 100 yard rating. This aiming at the cajones to hit in the 10 ring is driving me crazy!!
Thanx for your help!
Click to expand...

I think the battle sight is also calibrated for 300 yards. It seems you need a taller front sight element, they're out there.

The word is the 300 yard aperture was also calibrated for use with a pig-sticker spike bayonet. May even be true.
 
You can change the front sight so the battle sight will zero at 100. But then all the other setting will be too low.

You might be better off keeping the L sight, changing the front sight to get a 100 yard zero and then the 600 yard setting would be about right for 300. A useful combination.
 
The Mark 3 sight is hard to find and a disaster on a rifle. The slide-adjustment catch sticks out too far to the right and gets bashed easily. The Mark 4 is a Mark 3 with a mod made to avoid this problem. The Mark 4 is much easier to find, anyway.

Pop over to milsurps dot com, take out a (free) membership and download the MANUALS for your rifle. LOT of good information in there, including how to make the bayonet do most of the work you want done.

Bayonets are available for the princely sum of $6.95 (including scabbard) from Trade-Ex:tan link at 10 o`clock from the Beaver, top of this page.

One important point: have fun!
.
 
The 300/600 Mk.2 battle sight will hit six inches high at 100 yards and the standard Mk.1 sight will hit three inches high at 100 yards. The 300/600 Mk.2 sight was to have the bayonet fixed during sighting in, the Mk.1 was not to have the bayonet fixed during sight in. With the bayonet off the Mk.2 sight will hit even higher.


PrecisNoSARifles3-pg03.jpg


REME Précis No. SA/Rifles/3 (Zeroing of No.1, No.3, No.4, No.5 Rifles)
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=331-REME-Precis-No.-SA-Rifles-3-%28Zeroing-of-No.1-No.3-No.4-No.5-Rifles%29

zerorifles.jpg


bigedp51 AKA Ed Horton
 
Is there a good website that compares the different types of No.4 Mk.1 rear sights? I have Mr. Skennerton's masterpiece text on Lee Enfields, but I have found an Enfield rear sight labeled as a Mk.4 type, but the leaf base is machined, not stamped, and it doesn't look like the ones in his book.
 
spinecracker said:
Is there a good website that compares the different types of No.4 Mk.1 rear sights? I have Mr. Skennerton's masterpiece text on Lee Enfields, but I have found an Enfield rear sight labeled as a Mk.4 type, but the leaf base is machined, not stamped, and it doesn't look like the ones in his book.
Click to expand...

There are eight variations of the No.4 Enfield rear aperture sight, the original milled Mk.1, milled Mk.2 300/600 and variations of stamped and milled bases with stamped uppers. After the war the British reverted to the original milled Mk.1 and the Canadians kept their stamped sights. Canadian versions had three different Mk. numbers depending on slide construction and aperture diameter.
 
bigedp51 said:
There are eight variations of the No.4 Enfield rear aperture sight, the original milled Mk.1, milled Mk.2 300/600 and variations of stamped and milled bases with stamped uppers. After the war the British reverted to the original milled Mk.1 and the Canadians kept their stamped sights. Canadian versions had three different Mk. numbers depending on slide construction and aperture diameter.
Click to expand...

Bloomin' 'eck, my Northern cousins didn't believe in keeping things simple, did they? Thanks Big Ed. Strange that Skennerton didn't cover the variations in the later Canadian sights.
 
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I have the Mk1 milled sight w/300 battle sight. I've found the more I shoot these sights almost like magic, the more accurate the rifle becomes in my hands, weird huh?:p But really, I was initially all over the place (not even on paper @ 60yrds never mind 100) I was convinced there was something bent :eek: of course nothing was bent, I merely needed more range time with her. Now, 60m bulls, 100m 3 out of 5 bulls with the large 300m sight. Not great but I'm still figuring it out. after 20 or so rds I think I'm flinching the recoil ( as my shoulder turns to mush, my accuracy turns to sh1t:D) my .02 before you mess with the front sight try shooting some more.
 
i have a mk 3 rear sight with slide apiture took that off mine and put a parker hale t.z 4\47 it is made for 7.62 but i just need to bring up my front sight so i will be zeroed in
 
As has been said, the information is available. You HAVE a sight-in chart (above) and the various mods of the rear sight are discussed pretty thoroughly in the LE MKL over at milsurps dot com.

BTW, you should also be sure to download a copy of SHOOT TO LIVE. This is a Canadian WW2 rifle marksmanship course, based around the Number 4 Rifle. Again, it`s over at milsurps.

Generally, if the RIFLE wouldn`t shoot 2 inches at 100 yards, it didn`t leave the factory until it would. A good rifle, carefully handled and with decent ammunition, often will turn in groups a lot smaller than that. The DCRA guys used to shoot as-issued Number 4s (only the sights could be changed, rest of the rifle was issue spec) at targets with 2-MOA bulls..... or smaller. With a 7.62 Number 4 and PH sights, I have shot a 3.2-inch 5-round group at 300 measured yards..... and so have a lot of other guys. That was with issue 1961 DA ammo; took me a while to develop a handload that would keep up with it. That`s just a hair over 1 minute: the rifles can shoot.
.
 
I have a silly question to add. I have a 1950 No.4 Mk.1 with a Mk.III rear sight. Now how do i read that sight properly? The little arrows on the left and right side of the flip up sight, seem to point to two different numbers at the same time.......like one side will be pointing right at 400 while the other side points directly at 500........or whatever.......is there a secret to reading these sights? Silly question i know.........
 
Hmm...I have a mk 1 sight and the increments are staggered, Rs up so many clicks then your readings are on the Ls.....so many clicks up and you read back to the Rs and so on!? I thought all Enfield ladder sights were read in this manner {even my No1 Mk3} just later ones were made of stamped steel to speed up production?
 
smellie said:
As has been said, the information is available. You HAVE a sight-in chart (above) and the various mods of the rear sight are discussed pretty thoroughly in the LE MKL over at milsurps dot com.

BTW, you should also be sure to download a copy of SHOOT TO LIVE. This is a Canadian WW2 rifle marksmanship course, based around the Number 4 Rifle. Again, it`s over at milsurps.
Click to expand...

As George mentioned, one of the best books I've ever read (and trained with) on shooting the Enfield rifle is available in electronic format, professionally scanned (thanks to Ian Robertson), in the Knowledge Library section Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders

"Shoot-to-Live" - 1945 (click here)

Presenting the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching As Adopted By the Canadian Army, Ottawa, Chief of the General Staff.

This is an excellent Canadian Government issued training manual. If you are specifically a collector and shooter of Lee Enfield rifles, you'll find this to be an outstanding reference work and it contains a wealth of information on how to properly shoot the No.4 Mk1 Enfield, although much of the content is applicable to any bolt action rifle. I remember being issued this manual as part of our regimental rifle team, when I was a little younger back in the early 60's. ;)

Also ...

Lee-Enfield No.4 Rifles (Rear Sight Variations)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=174-Lee-Enfield-No.4-Rifles-(Rear-Sight-Variations)

Hope this helps... :)

Regards,
Doug
 
bgcameron said:
Why is the mk3 in the picture stamped as a mk2, and the mk4 stamped as a mk3?
Click to expand...

Because the Mk.3 sight has a Mk.2 leaf and the Mk.4 has a Mk.3 leaf and were post war FTR program modifications.

You had British standards which would make the Mk.1 sight standard after the war and Canadian standards with variations of the Mk.3 and Mk.4.

Then you have Australians, Americans, Canadians and British writing books about these sights with National confusion added.

"Who's on first, What's on second, and I Don't Know's on third"
Abbot and Costello

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M
 
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