New member in need of help identifying some milsurp

Somebody just offered to buy the Arisaka Type 38 carbine, It makes me think that I should probably have the collection appraised... I think I'll start with the 303 and the bolt action swede as advised above. I need to keep it simple to start or this whole shooting experience is going to get overwhelmingly expensive very quickly. I have no doubt that I will be on the slippery slope in no time and hand loading in my basement.

You're probably all a little curious as to why a guy who knows so little about his collection has such a good start. I inherited these guns years ago and they've been in the care of a friend. I recently got my PAL and paid him a visit, to give you an idea of what it once was the collection was split up between 4 of us.... I'm the only one that actually held onto my share though sadly. Thanks for helping me learn the history on these rifles, military surplus seems to be a lot harder to figure out than the shotguns and hunting rifles.
 
cie said:
Steyr Mannlicher 1895 chambered in 8x56R ( S marking) Produced at the end of the 19th century but converted to 8x56R in the '30s .

Calgary Shooting Centre has a bit of Nazi marked ammo on the shelf if you are looking for some.
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How much is a bit? And of course I'm looking for some even better if there happens to be an en bloc clip sitting there to load it up too! :cool:
Let me know how much $$ and the quantity as I do get out to Calgary once in awhile...
 
The Nazi-marked ammo (eagle and swastika) which came here mostly is 1938 stuff although some will be from before the Anschluss and thus not Nazified. It is packed in 10-round boxes generally, 2 clips of 5 each. I don't know about this stuff, but there also is some Bulgarian ammo for these which is VIOLENTLY corrosive. Thous shalt clean thy bore with boiling water, verily, and then thou shalt scrub the daylights out of it and wash it out again and then oil it while it still is hot and then keep a watchful eye upon it, else the chlorate-demons whill eat it to nothing.

Trade-Ex (tan link at 10 o'clock from the Beaver, above) has the special .329" slugs for this number, Lee makes dies that work (Lee Factory Sales) and Trad-Ex had brass but are out now. No matter, you can make it from 7.62x54R Russian.

Recoil is plain and fancy murder.

Nice rifles, though.
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PlinkerM1 said:
How much is a bit? And of course I'm looking for some even better if there happens to be an en bloc clip sitting there to load it up too! :cool:
Let me know how much $$ and the quantity as I do get out to Calgary once in awhile...
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As discussed they are pre loaded on clips. I think there is about 200rds left. See the end of this page for pricing:

http://theshootingcentre.com/current-inventory
 
Thanks for the heads up cie! I'll have to order up a couple of boxes and see if I like shooting the Styr M.95 or not. I see that it is Austrian made, but I don't know if that is a good or bad thing.

The listing from the website:

8x56R Austrian made 1938-39 production, Nazi marked. $17.99/10rd box

I've been doing a lot of reading on the site today, and the more I read the more I realize I need to learn about my little collection. I certainly don't want to do anything to devalue the rifles, but at the same time I can't just let sit idle in the safe never to be used. I guess I'll just have to be careful not to damage the condition of these old relics. I would like to figure out what their market value is so that I know what it is that I'm trying to protect. I learned today that refurbing is out of the question because it will devalue the guns which makes sense because they're more like antique furniture than old cars.
 
To many people, CAREFUL work to bring the thing back to a bit better condition is permissible. Just don't go all-out like the kid with the '27 Willys-Knight that got a 429 shovelled under its hood!

That price is pretty high for ammo, but it's worth it because you get 2 clips in each box. The clips have been out of production since 1945 and they are VERY hard to find.

I don't know about primers in the Austrian ammo, but I think they had a working agreement with RWS/Dynamit Nobel regarding the SINOXID/ROSTFREI primer. They certainly would have had something of this sort in the Nazi period; that way, everybody would be using NCNM primers and all the rifles wouldn't be turning into sad little piles of rust if it rained. No way to run a war!

I know, I joke. Bad me. Get some ammo, hang onto those clips, go to the range and have a blast. Save up and get dies, bullets, a mould, case of primers and a BIG tub of powder, go have fun! That's what it's all about.

One thing: be prepared to do a LOT of explaining while you're at the range. That Mannlicher straight-pull WILL turn heads. And everybody and his DOG will be begging for one of your genuine eagle-and-swastika-stamped empties.

You can have a lotta fun in this racket.

Enjoy!
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On the Swedish M96/38 Short rifle, does the serial number on the bolt match. Usually, those should have a straight bolt handle.
 
JP said:
On the Swedish M96/38 Short rifle, does the serial number on the bolt match. Usually, those should have a straight bolt handle.
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The last three digits of the serial # are stamped on the bolt in various places, including the end of the bolt handle. Interesting question though and it got me looking at the rifle even more closely. I found that the bolt release lever, the front carry strap clamp, the cleaning rod receiver and the bottom plate of the magazine all have different three digit numbers on them. The sights are a match, the butt plate is a match and the bolt matches. I can't find any markings on the trigger assembly and I'm not willing to take it apart to look for some because it seems to function perfectly.

I can spend hours looking at these rifles and continue to find new little things about them that are of some interest. I wonder if the mis-matched parts were replacements put on when the rifle was converted or put on at a later date by a collector (possibly my step father who passed them on to me) It appears that a bayonet or something threads onto the end of the barrel but that piece is missing as well. I guess I've got some more detective work to do.:)

Smellie;

Again, thank you so much for the great info, you obviously have a lot of time into this hobby. I'm glad you enjoy passing the knowledge you have on to others!
 
The barrel of the swede is threaded for a blank firing (wooden bullet shredder) device.


http://www.kebcollc.com/cart/store.php?crn=222
 
Interesting, it looks like they made a muzzle cover for it as well. it's good to see that there's still some parts available for it. Thanks for the link!

I just learned something else as well the piece I called the bottom plate of the magazine is actually called the floor plate. And the front carry strap mount is called a hand guard band.
 
PlinkerM1 said:
Hi all! I've got a few old military rifles that I'm having trouble identifying and I was hoping to get some direction from your knowledge base.
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Check the Austro-Hungarian Empirehttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=116-austro-hungarian-empire knowledge library.

You'll find an excellent article there by claven2, complete with a 40 pic photo montage for you to compare your rifle against for correctness.

Austro Hungarian M95 Short Riflehttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=141-1897-Austro-Hungarian-M95-Short-Rifle
(Osterreichisches Repetier-Stutzen M.95 or Extra-Korps Gewehr M95)
(Mfg in 1897 by Osterreichische Waffenfabriks-Gesellschaft, Steyr)

Regards,
Doug
 
JP said:
On the Swedish M96/38 Short rifle, does the serial number on the bolt match. Usually, those should have a straight bolt handle.
Click to expand...

That's correct, although some did have a bent handle as a military replacement - I have a nice example with correct serialized bolt.
 
That appears to be the case with mine, but I'm no sherlock holmes in this department yet... I got curious today and started checking out the rifling in the bores of my guns. They're all in need of some cleaning but appear to have decent lands and grooves. While doing this I thought hey I can clean the M96/38 because it has a cleaning rod. Unfortunately the end that appears to be designed to have a swab attached doesn't fit down the barrel :confused: Could this be because of the changes made from 96 to 38? or do I have the wrong piece on my rifle?
 
PlinkerM1: Nice collection! It is refreshing to hear from someone who will cherish these old rifles.

New, reloadable brass is available from time to time. A shooter friend got me a batch. He has dies and a bullet mould, so we are in business!

I have some of the old Nazi-marked stuff. It came mixed with ordinary Austrian marked ammo. As the months progressed, the headstamps changed to the Eagle. It all came on en bloc clips. I actually found a full box of reloadable Hornady ammo for 8x56R at a gunshow!

A few years back, a fellow from the US asked if I would mail some of the fired military ammo to a friend of his in England. I did and became a pen pal for a while with the Brit. He used an old 8x56R in shooting competitions.

Enjoy your rifles!:)
 
Thanks for the kind words kjohn. These rifles have sentimental value to me so I certainly don't want to do anything stupid to them. On that note it would be stupid to keep them locked up forever without taking them out to the range and enjoying them at least once in awhile. I was talking to a friend of mine today (who is a shooter) and he thought I was crazy to want to go out and shoot rifles that are close to 100 years old. I told him that it would be crazy not to! I can't wait to see the look on his face when I shoot a tighter group with one of my old relics with open sights than he can shoot with his modern rifle.
 
Oh, no, friend: stuff that nice just MUST be taken out and shot. My "range baby" is a 1907 Lee-Enfield Mark I*** that I rebuilt out of a spare-parts barrel (actual barrel stuffed full of parts, $2, your choice) many years ago, starting with a barreled action with what I THOUGHT was a shot-out bore and a vey pretty set of sights with water-buffalo-horn adjustment buttons. It cost me $12 in total, then a guy ofered me $200 for the thing, so I kept it. It is still my "baby" even though I have many rifles which are MUCH more accurate.

That little Arisaka carbine, though..... Hmmmmm........ .220 Swift brass is the PERFECT stuff to start with and it is available at your local shop... AND it is one of the easiest conversions there is. Just full-length size the brass in 6.5 Arisaka dies, trim to proper length, chamfer the mouths and load 'em up. No safety problems: Arisaka runs at 45,000 psi, the Swift cases are engineered for 65,000. The Type 38 Arisaka has a 4-groove variant on Metford rifling; it can LOOK shot-out and still shoot very well. That's the good part. The bad part is that it distorts the bullets quite a bit, which means that hard-jacketed Match bullets can actually fly apart about 10 feet from the muzzle, just ruining your day completely. The solution to the problem is to stick with soft-jacketed bullets. My Type 38 rifle really likes that cheap Remington flatbase 140 that comes in the bulk packs... and that really suits a cheap b*st*rd like me.

With a short-barreled rifle such as your Arisaka carbine, I would think you would do best loading with a fast powder. My Carcano carbines like 4198 in small doses, even though it is not regularly listed for that cartridge. And with this, they produce good shooting, mild recoil and none of that truly earsplitting, Gawdawful muzzle-blast for which they are famed. Just something to think on. The two cartridges are actually very similar.

BTW, if you have rifles with a bore which is less than perfect, or a bit worn, you very well might find that the solution to your lousy targets is FLATBASE bullets. Boat-tails shoot nice in perfect bores but they don't expand in diameter; flatbase bullets actually will UPSET on firing, seal a less-than-perfect bore.... and shoot like nobody's business. AND they're cheaper.

Most important point of all: be sure to have fun.

Hope this helps.
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