I was at the range today with my new to me Remington sps tactical rifle in .308. It has been a warm and sunny day and I was shooting at a fairly quick pace. After 15 shots I gave up for the day because my groups were getting progressively worse. I told my story to an old guy at the range with more experience than I have and he told me my gun was way too hot. He said to keep the rifle in the shade and pause for several minutes between shots. I don't know if this makes sense or weather to blame my wet noodle black plastic stock that rests on the barrel under my bipod. Not too impressed with my purchase so far.
Too hot for good groups
- Thread starter Stillar
- Start date
Are you using a proven load or factory match ammo or are you shooting plain jane blue box stuff?
Are YOU capable of shooting well enough to judge how the rifle shoots after only 15 rounds?
How were the conditions? Wind, mirage, cloud, rain? If mirage was getting worse as you shot your groups did you accommodate for this?
Shooting F-Class in the US one will shoot 2 sighters and 20 for score as quickly as they possibly can in all types of warm weather (Think 120F and beyond).
If it is hot out (25c-30c+), I will shoot 15-20 rounds and then let the barrel cool for awhile. I have even used a damp rag to help cool the barrel a little faster.
How hot was it when you went out? Is the action bedded or at very least torque on action screws set the same?
Are YOU capable of shooting well enough to judge how the rifle shoots after only 15 rounds?
How were the conditions? Wind, mirage, cloud, rain? If mirage was getting worse as you shot your groups did you accommodate for this?
Shooting F-Class in the US one will shoot 2 sighters and 20 for score as quickly as they possibly can in all types of warm weather (Think 120F and beyond).
If it is hot out (25c-30c+), I will shoot 15-20 rounds and then let the barrel cool for awhile. I have even used a damp rag to help cool the barrel a little faster.
How hot was it when you went out? Is the action bedded or at very least torque on action screws set the same?
There was some wind but it was going down range.
I was using plain jane federal ammo 150 gr.
I don't know how the action screws are torqued but I have since tightened the screws on the scope and scope base because they were loose. I would guess that is where most of my problems lay.
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Torqing stuff would be good.
I personally am leery of the SPS stocks. No practical experience with them, though (never shot one but looked seriously at them)
Try again and see if the tightening worked for you.
I personally am leery of the SPS stocks. No practical experience with them, though (never shot one but looked seriously at them)
Try again and see if the tightening worked for you.
This is most likely the culprit but I would check that the action screws are all torqued to the same. I use 55 in/lbs for my Rem actions in laminate stocks. Not sure what the specs are for the composite stocks, if it has pillars then I would go 50-60 in/lbs.
CyaN1de has nailed most of it for sure and he is one of this country's top shooters, so his advice is good.
The gun you have should have a barrel that will tolerate strings of shooting, but the advice to slow down is excellent. Allowing a minute between shots is a good idea.
Remember that it takes an accurate firearm, an accurate AND tuned load, and an accurate shooter to achieve the best results. With a 308, I would not be at all surprised if you have many "bad" habits that you are not aware of. That rifle has a fair amount of recoil and you are almost certainly flinching or anticipating the shots, which will affect the release and follow-through of your shots.
Alpha males have a hard time accepting critism, but a little coaching goes a LONG way way when it comes to developing and refining good technique.
Don't blame the gun. You have a huge number of far more likely variables to eliminate first.
Ian
The gun you have should have a barrel that will tolerate strings of shooting, but the advice to slow down is excellent. Allowing a minute between shots is a good idea.
Remember that it takes an accurate firearm, an accurate AND tuned load, and an accurate shooter to achieve the best results. With a 308, I would not be at all surprised if you have many "bad" habits that you are not aware of. That rifle has a fair amount of recoil and you are almost certainly flinching or anticipating the shots, which will affect the release and follow-through of your shots.
Alpha males have a hard time accepting critism, but a little coaching goes a LONG way way when it comes to developing and refining good technique.
Don't blame the gun. You have a huge number of far more likely variables to eliminate first.
Ian
I did go back to the range today after tightening up my base and rings. I also checked the other bolts for tightness. After zeroing my rifle again I was able to get three of my five shots in an inch circle at 100 yards. The other two were a couple of inches off. They may have been flinches or flyers. I was using army surplus non-match ammo.
Better stock, better ammo, and more practice should do a world of good.
Better stock, better ammo, and more practice should do a world of good.
- Location
- Virden, MB
Better stock, better ammo, and more practice should do a world of good.
Don't worry about the stock yet. Glass bedding may get you by for a bit if you feel comfortable doing it yourself. It probably is not worth doing if you are paying a smith to do it being the stock is worth less than the labor.
Better ammo is a must. Tuned handloads are a must to precision shooting.
Plus what are you using for a rest system? A sturdy front pedestal rest (or even a decent front bi-pod) with a rear bag rest is helpful for removing a lot of human error.
More trigger time is never a bad thing.
I did go back to the range today after tightening up my base and rings. I also checked the other bolts for tightness. After zeroing my rifle again I was able to get three of my five shots in an inch circle at 100 yards. The other two were a couple of inches off. They may have been flinches or flyers. I was using army surplus non-match ammo.
Better stock, better ammo, and more practice should do a world of good.
Lots and lots and lots and lots of practice helps.
Glad to see that tightening things up, tightened things up for you.
Just think how much more the groups can improve with Match ammo or handloading....
Lots and lots and lots and lots of practice helps.
Glad to see that tightening things up, tightened things up for you.
Just think how much more the groups can improve with Match ammo or handloading....
Thanks for the coaching because I'm new to the precision shooting sport.
I plan on getting into hand loading sometime soon. Match ammo is unavailable in my local Walmart and Canadian Tire stores and if they had it I'm sure it would cost a fortune. From what I hear tuning your handloads to your rifle is half the fun.
I glass bedded my SKS a while ago and still have enough to bed my sps but I don't know if the compound will stick to the rubber stock or even if that matters.
I have a Harris Bi-pod in the front and a sand bag on the back.
Rough up the bedding area of the stock with a dremel, drill small holes in the bottom of the bedding area at a slight angle (in different directions), this will allow the bedding compound to seep into the holes and create a mechanical lock of the bedding to the stock. Make sure to push bedding compound into the holes with a toothpick or similar when putting the bedding material in, this will help get them full and reduce the chance of it seeping in after and leaving voids in the bedding.
When I bedded my sks the bedding material heated up a great deal with some sort of chemical reaction. I hope it doesn't get hot enough to meld down my limp rubber stock.
- Location
- Virden, MB
What are you using as a bedding compound?
If you are unsure about your current compound you can buy Lepage steel epoxy at Canuk Tire for 7 bucks and I know it works well with anything I have tried. You can do prolly 2 stocks with the amount you get in one tube.
Just make sure whenever you bed your rifle to take the trigger off and be very liberal with the release agent. Do lots of reading a research before attempting to bed your rifle, you could end up with a mess if done wrong.
If you are unsure about your current compound you can buy Lepage steel epoxy at Canuk Tire for 7 bucks and I know it works well with anything I have tried. You can do prolly 2 stocks with the amount you get in one tube.
Just make sure whenever you bed your rifle to take the trigger off and be very liberal with the release agent. Do lots of reading a research before attempting to bed your rifle, you could end up with a mess if done wrong.
wapitiwhacker
CGN Regular
- Location
- East Kootenay B.C.
Biggest problem with the Hogue stock isn't so much the bedding, but the lack of stiffness in the forearm. Instead of your bipod you might want to try using some sand bags a little farther back on the forearm to reduce the flex.
Here is a link to a post regarding bedding the hogue. Within this thread there is another link to an AR15 site DIY page. Half way down that page is a post regarding stiffening the forearm of a Hogue.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1281666
I considered bedding my Hogue, but in the end I sold it for a hundred bucks, and picked up an HS Precision off EE for 225. The rifle shot OK with the Hogue, but I really didn't like the flex in the forearm, using a bipod.
Here is a link to a post regarding bedding the hogue. Within this thread there is another link to an AR15 site DIY page. Half way down that page is a post regarding stiffening the forearm of a Hogue.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1281666
I considered bedding my Hogue, but in the end I sold it for a hundred bucks, and picked up an HS Precision off EE for 225. The rifle shot OK with the Hogue, but I really didn't like the flex in the forearm, using a bipod.
