Self defense loads for 9mm
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
Of course since we have no CCW in this country yet and you are unlikely to run to your lock-up, and unlock your 9mm, load a mag and actually use it in a real life situation. I guessing your question is mostly theoretical?
For practical shooting application "zombie paper" buy the cheapest bullets you can that can be driven to the power your looking for.
Zombie paper will never know the difference.
For practical shooting application "zombie paper" buy the cheapest bullets you can that can be driven to the power your looking for.
Zombie paper will never know the difference.
Verdical Driver
Regular
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Hypothetically speaking, why is it outlandish to assume that someone could unlock their gun and load a mag in time to be used for self defense?
I can certainly understand that anyone who uses a gun for self-defense in Canada is going to be charged with unsafe storage at the minimum, and will be lucky not to end up in prison. Which makes the legal use of self-defense an absolute no-go.
But ignoring the legality and discussing it only from a practical standpoint, opening a digital safe and loading a magazine takes seconds, and in theory would be 100% in compliance with storage laws (I know, I know, in reality you would still go to jail, I am not recommend that people actually do that).
A friend of mine in the U.S. had someone trying to break into his house... he managed to get his pregnant wife upstairs, lock themselves in the bedroom, and remove the trigger lock and load his revolver (while his wife called 911), all before the robber managed to get inside the house (the robber got scared when he heard police sirens in the distance, so my friend never actually saw the guy). My friend was not some highly trained tactical gun ninja (in fact, I am pretty sure he hadn't fired his gun in years).
Home defense is not some gun nut fantasy, we have statistics from places where it is legal, and people successfully defend their homes all the time. Although, I agree with you that it is impossible in Canada from a legal standpoint.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Hornady XTP 115 or 124 jacketed hollow points. Make your loads hot, and confirm that they cycle. I figure that if you buy a box of 100 bullets, you have 80 rounds for load development.
I have a box of 100 bullets at home, I just haven't started the load dev. I figure I'll try Unique and Titegroup, halfway to maximum and work my way up as hot as I can go without wrecking my gun.
I have a box of 100 bullets at home, I just haven't started the load dev. I figure I'll try Unique and Titegroup, halfway to maximum and work my way up as hot as I can go without wrecking my gun.
^^ Why make them hot? That extra 50fps with twice the recovery time is more likely to get one in trouble than two well placed 'lower power' loads.
As with my field guns....load to a manageable recoil level in your firearm so that you can shoot fast and accurately. The power difference at self defense ranges is semantics and recovery time/shot placement is by far the most important factor. For example using a 3" federal slug in my shotgun vs a 2 3/4" I get the same bullet with an extra 50fps. My recovery time is literally twice as long since these have a crap load more felt recoil. Given that if I needed it I would have at best 2 shots to drop a predator, I would rather have the 2 'lower powered' round than one 'higher powered' round. Ya I know 9mm...but it's still worth having a round that you can unload as fast as possible and accurately.
For bullet choice priority: 1) something that will feed in your gun with zero issues. 2) something soft nosed or a hollow point.
And just to throw it out there...when butchering cattle a .22lr from 20' in the forehead is used. You don't need 'uber hotz asskicking' rounds to kill something.
As with my field guns....load to a manageable recoil level in your firearm so that you can shoot fast and accurately. The power difference at self defense ranges is semantics and recovery time/shot placement is by far the most important factor. For example using a 3" federal slug in my shotgun vs a 2 3/4" I get the same bullet with an extra 50fps. My recovery time is literally twice as long since these have a crap load more felt recoil. Given that if I needed it I would have at best 2 shots to drop a predator, I would rather have the 2 'lower powered' round than one 'higher powered' round. Ya I know 9mm...but it's still worth having a round that you can unload as fast as possible and accurately.
For bullet choice priority: 1) something that will feed in your gun with zero issues. 2) something soft nosed or a hollow point.
And just to throw it out there...when butchering cattle a .22lr from 20' in the forehead is used. You don't need 'uber hotz asskicking' rounds to kill something.
First off, there are 9mm non-restricted firearms around, so the idea of using a restricted weapon only is purely an idea and does not apply to all, in Canada.
Second, not everyone on these boards is restricted to Canada, and Canada only, and may be asking as they may indeed have legal access to a 9mm and its use outside the confines of Canada and Her Gun Laws.
Lastly, no matter where you use self defense ammo and in what ever jurisdiction if its self defense against another fellow person you use only, and consider only using factory ammo. You NEVER used home loads, as any Judge, Jury or Prosecutor will tear you up for loading those evil, killing, bombastic, incredibly hot, malicious rounds. you use ONLY FACTORY AMMO, EVER, period, end of story. Anything else opens a whole can of worms you don't want open.
Just opinion, and fwiw, not gospel, and not advice, just hearsay.
XTP or GoldDots or so; 124gr.
115gr if you are after high velosity and deep penetration, just make sure it can handle multiple layers of clothing.
Dunno how it'd be treated in Canada, but in US it'd be a law suit against the handloader for sure; if the load was used for SD (self defence).
115gr if you are after high velosity and deep penetration, just make sure it can handle multiple layers of clothing.
Dunno how it'd be treated in Canada, but in US it'd be a law suit against the handloader for sure; if the load was used for SD (self defence).
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
The idea of loading "hot" is to ensure the velocity is high enough to hopefully expand the bullet.
Regarding lawsuits against handloaders, this is the topic of endless discussions.
Bottom line is this:
What do you value more? Your life and your loved ones' lives?
Or your possible loss of freedom?
Anyway, why are we even discussing this with the antis reading over our shoulders?
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Because it's not illegal to have a theoretical conversation. It's also not illegal to make ammo using self defence components.
I knew I'd be running hot loads out of my gun, and that's why I didn't go polymer. My SP-01 Tactical is practically designed for double or triple tapping in the dark and guess what, it's just as restricted as your M1 Carbine.
They sell those vital shok or power shok self defense 9mm rounds at outfitters in Canada. My biggest problem with the anti's is that they'll make a deal out of problem that doesn't exist, until they create it. Much like when they were putting out crappy scare tactics around long range sniper rifles, I mean come on. Give me an example in Canadian history where someone has taken a 16lb 338 lapua, which is 50 inches long and can be heard for miles, then murdered someone.
I don't want to be muzzled simply because some fat victim-mentality woman may take what I'm doing and lie about it in a news paper editorial section. They tried that, and they got Stephen Harper, the most conservative leader in the west since GWB.
You get the Gov't you deserve, and we worked long and hard enough to give the anti's something to cry about.
I knew I'd be running hot loads out of my gun, and that's why I didn't go polymer. My SP-01 Tactical is practically designed for double or triple tapping in the dark and guess what, it's just as restricted as your M1 Carbine.
They sell those vital shok or power shok self defense 9mm rounds at outfitters in Canada. My biggest problem with the anti's is that they'll make a deal out of problem that doesn't exist, until they create it. Much like when they were putting out crappy scare tactics around long range sniper rifles, I mean come on. Give me an example in Canadian history where someone has taken a 16lb 338 lapua, which is 50 inches long and can be heard for miles, then murdered someone.
I don't want to be muzzled simply because some fat victim-mentality woman may take what I'm doing and lie about it in a news paper editorial section. They tried that, and they got Stephen Harper, the most conservative leader in the west since GWB.
You get the Gov't you deserve, and we worked long and hard enough to give the anti's something to cry about.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
You got a point. I'm with p-----g off these guys.
I expressed my opinion on the subject. I still think 124gr and 115gr are a better choice over 147gr bullet; unless it's a rifle one 
If you do need to get clothing penetration and bullet expansion, look at Hornady Critical Defence bullet design, you can simply fill the hollow point of the bullet with what you have on hand to improve the bullet's properties. Well, test it to get an idea of what to expect. It should not be too soft or too hard of the filling, thou to allow 'proper' expansion.
If you do need to get clothing penetration and bullet expansion, look at Hornady Critical Defence bullet design, you can simply fill the hollow point of the bullet with what you have on hand to improve the bullet's properties. Well, test it to get an idea of what to expect. It should not be too soft or too hard of the filling, thou to allow 'proper' expansion.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Another hypothetical statement:
If I were to keep self defense ammo, I would have no doubt that my reloaded ammo will be as reliable and effective as factory.
Reliable because out of many tens of thousands of reloads, I have had one (1) failure to fire due to a dud primer, and a few squibs due to inexperience in my first month of reloading. This FTF only happened this year after 22 years of reloading.
IMO, a failure to fire of any of my reloads is just as likely or unlikely, as a failure to fire with a factory load.
A FTF, specially if I were to take special care in the reload process because they will be for self defense purposes, is like a 200-yr flood. It may or may not happen.
Now again hypothetically, if I were to reload and keep SD ammo, I would naturally want to practice with them. IMO, this is the better argument for reloaded (meaning affordable) SD ammo. One can practice shooting with what may turn out to be the most critically important gun/ammo combination in one's collection.
If I were to keep self defense ammo, I would have no doubt that my reloaded ammo will be as reliable and effective as factory.
Reliable because out of many tens of thousands of reloads, I have had one (1) failure to fire due to a dud primer, and a few squibs due to inexperience in my first month of reloading. This FTF only happened this year after 22 years of reloading.
IMO, a failure to fire of any of my reloads is just as likely or unlikely, as a failure to fire with a factory load.
A FTF, specially if I were to take special care in the reload process because they will be for self defense purposes, is like a 200-yr flood. It may or may not happen.
Now again hypothetically, if I were to reload and keep SD ammo, I would naturally want to practice with them. IMO, this is the better argument for reloaded (meaning affordable) SD ammo. One can practice shooting with what may turn out to be the most critically important gun/ammo combination in one's collection.
To KDX and all others I riled up with my quick comments at the start of this thread I'm deeply sorry. I did not think when I typed what I did and I certainly did not mean for the heavy debate that ensued.
To be serious about answering your intended question I would probably go with Hornady 124gr XTP's for loading any self defense load for a 9mm. I would however be curious to see the penetration ability of the Berry's HP bullets. They are only a few dollars more than the round nose profile bullet I have used. If they worked well, they would be cheap and plentiful to shoot tons of and you would always be ready.
My $0.02.
Again sorry for starting all this......
To be serious about answering your intended question I would probably go with Hornady 124gr XTP's for loading any self defense load for a 9mm. I would however be curious to see the penetration ability of the Berry's HP bullets. They are only a few dollars more than the round nose profile bullet I have used. If they worked well, they would be cheap and plentiful to shoot tons of and you would always be ready.
My $0.02.
Again sorry for starting all this......
If you can't get factory ammo, I suggest trying to duplicate some of the loads on the list found here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Barnes XPB and Speer Gold Dot bullets are available as component bullets. I wouldn't choose Hornady XTPs unless you couldn't find anything else. They generally seem to be best suited to magnum revolver type applications.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Barnes XPB and Speer Gold Dot bullets are available as component bullets. I wouldn't choose Hornady XTPs unless you couldn't find anything else. They generally seem to be best suited to magnum revolver type applications.
