Walther KKJ vs Anschutz 1415-1416

[jakfrost]

I expect these are both very fine shooting .22's, but have no experience with either.

Assuming they are both in the same condition, would one be considered a better shooter, if the shooting were to consist of crow, squirrel, 20yd out to 100yd...?

Would one be better value for future trades or sale?

Any input greatly appreciated...

Jim

 

[stubblejumper]

I am assuming that you are referring to the two rifles currently being advertised on the EE. I don't expect much difference in quality or accuracy, but I would lean toward the Anschutz, because I can see a picture of it's condition, and because parts will likely be easier to find if they should ever be required.

 

[LarryG]

Any quality .22 bolt gun can do what you're asking. All you need is some ammo that it shoots well. choose the one you like the looks of more.

Personally, I'd go with the Walther, little more exotic/rare. Known to be excellent quality and very accurate.

 

[nesterk]

I am assuming that you are referring to the two rifles currently being advertised on the EE. I don't expect much difference in quality or accuracy, but I would lean toward the Anschutz, because I can see a picture of it's condition, and because parts will likely be easier to find if they should ever be required.

Same thoughts - quality and accuracy should be pretty equivalent, but IMHO Anschutz looks like more value and resale.

 

[dizzy]

Had/have both, would pick the anschutz. The Walther GX-1 will outshoot high end anschutz, but the kkJ's won't, in my experience anyhow. Anschutz is far easier to get parts for. Pass on the Walther if you have a choice.

 

[jakfrost]

Thanks everyone for your input...we will see what the morning brings. I'm thinking Anschutz also!

Jim

 

[jes]

Isn't the 1415/1416 the 64 action, the kkj is the 54 equivalent. My kkj will shoot along side my 54.

 

[M70-338]

Imho

I have one of each and compared side by side, here's what I think:
-Judging by cycling and smoothness of the action, the Walther is a little nicer than the Anschutz 1400/64 action. Anschutz 1700/54 action still king.
-Anschutz has more and better trigger adjustments.
-Fit and finish very close to equal, but if I had to chose, I'd say the Walther by a hair.
-I don't believe there to be much accuracy difference between the two, Anschutz may shoot a touch better but only due to a better adjusted trigger.
-The Walther has much nicer trainer type tangent sights.
-I wouldn't be scared away from the parts issue with the KKJ, just be prepared to pay more, look harder and wait longer for parts. I found aftermarket (non factory) production 10 shot mags and will be picking up two this week. Had to use attheborderstorage.com, ammoclip.com does not ship outside US.

The Walther is definitely the preferred carry along all day rifle, the narrow fore end keeps the rifle light at 5.9lbs.
The main reason I bought my Walther and will keep it - "It is the lightest, and one of the most practical high end bolt action sporters ever made."
Now before everyone jumps down my throat, yes I know the 54 action is superior to the Walther as previously stated. Just remember the lightest 54 sporter with open sights is nearly 2 pounds heavier than the Walther.

As for your decision, it would sure be a lot easier if there were some pics of the KKJ to look at. Provided the KKJ is decent shape, here's my best advice:

"The most sensible thing to do here is buy both, that way you'll truly know what works best for you." Both rifles are keepers anyways

Here's some pics of the one I bought off CGN not too long ago, haven't taken any pics myself yet. These are the original sellers pics. When I got the rifle it appeared new and unfired, built in 1966.

 

[jakfrost]

I have one of each and compared side by side, here's what I think:
-Judging by cycling and smoothness of the action, the Walther is a little nicer than the Anschutz 1400/64 action. Anschutz 1700/54 action still king.
-Anschutz has more and better trigger adjustments.
-Fit and finish very close to equal, but if I had to chose, I'd say the Walther by a hair.
-I don't believe there to be much accuracy difference between the two, Anschutz may shoot a touch better but only due to a better adjusted trigger.
-The Walther has much nicer trainer type tangent sights.
-I wouldn't be scared away from the parts issue with the KKJ, just be prepared to pay more, look harder and wait longer for parts. I found aftermarket (non factory) production 10 shot mags and will be picking up two this week. Had to use attheborderstorage.com, ammoclip.com does not ship outside US.

The Walther is definitely the preferred carry along all day rifle, the narrow fore end keeps the rifle light at 5.9lbs.
The main reason I bought my Walther and will keep it - "It is the lightest, and one of the most practical high end bolt action sporters ever made."
Now before everyone jumps down my throat, yes I know the 54 action is superior to the Walther as previously stated. Just remember the lightest 54 sporter with open sights is nearly 2 pounds heavier than the Walther.

As for your decision, it would sure be a lot easier if there were some pics of the KKJ to look at. Provided the KKJ is decent shape, here's my best advice:

"The most sensible thing to do here is buy both, that way you'll truly know what works best for you." Both rifles are keepers anyways

Here's some pics of the one I bought off CGN not too long ago, haven't taken any pics myself yet. These are the original sellers pics. When I got the rifle it appeared new and unfired, built in 1966.

WOW that is a pretty KKJ! The one for sale doesn't have any sights with it, so I assume I would have to order some, or just mount a scope...it seems a nice one ( KKJ ), might be available now and then on the board, patience...I think.

Thanks again for all the input, much appreciated.

Jim

 

[dizzy]

should corret my previous post. My experience has shown Walther will beat most annie 64's hand down, not so for the annie 54

 

[jakfrost]

should corret my previous post. My experience has shown Walther will beat most annie 64's hand down, not so for the annie 54

So...just to understand, the annie ( Anschutz? ), '64' is not the equal of the Walther KKJ, however the annie '54' is a superior unit.

Never having seen, and of course never held or fired, any of these rifles...makes it hard for me to envision how any of them might feel, or fire for that matter. So I am depending on you folks who are 'shooters' and have experience with this type of high end rimfire.

I appreciate quality, and don't mind paying for it...but it sure helps to get a little 'edification' before hitting the 'pay now' button!

Again, what I am looking for is a .22 that I can reasonably carry, hit a crow at 100+ yrds or a squirrel at 50...with some consistency. At least trying to make sure the weak link isn't the equipment, just the shooter

Thanks,
Jim

 

[smaly]

I think the best advice was given by M70-338; buy both, and keep the one you like the best. The KKJ bolt is almost the same as the bolt on a GX-1, but of course a model 64 Anschutz bolt is considerably different from a model 54. The trigger on a KKJ is an improved military (Mauser-like) variety. It has few adjustments. If one person is shooting the gun, you don't really need easilly adjustable trigger parts. You go to a gunsmith and have it permanently set to your requirements. Fewer adjustments means fewer cases of a trigger coming out of adjustment. I had a model 54 trigger break while I was training with it. It is more fragile than the trigger on a KKJ. I've done lots of sporting rifle shooting, and I could never get a model 64 to fit my hand correctly, but as if by magic, the KKJ fits MY hand like a glove. Consequently, it is easy for me to shoot it well as a sporting rifle. Ammo makes a difference of course, but the fit is everything. My KKJ was made for a match peep sight, so there was no sight on the barrel. The Walther dovetail is a little wider than the Anschutz, so many older Anschutz sights will not fit it. If you don't buy both guns, you should try to fire each of them and find out which one fits you better. If I were going to buy a new rifle for the sporting event today it would likely be a Winchester Wildcat with a heay barrel. They cost the least and they shoot well (and they fit me). Once you get the gun, take good care of it. Someone will be willing to buy it from you if it is in really good condition when you are finished with it.

 

[nesterk]

So...just to understand, the annie ( Anschutz? ), '64' is not the equal of the Walther KKJ, however the annie '54' is a superior unit.

Never having seen, and of course never held or fired, any of these rifles...makes it hard for me to envision how any of them might feel, or fire for that matter. So I am depending on you folks who are 'shooters' and have experience with this type of high end rimfire.

I appreciate quality, and don't mind paying for it...but it sure helps to get a little 'edification' before hitting the 'pay now' button!

Again, what I am looking for is a .22 that I can reasonably carry, hit a crow at 100+ yrds or a squirrel at 50...with some consistency. At least trying to make sure the weak link isn't the equipment, just the shooter

Thanks,
Jim

Do not worry about rifle accuracy at all.
IMHO the difference between Action 54 and Action 64 - at most the few millimeters at 50m distance, and Walther should be not that far.
This kind of rifles give the group size of 5-7 mm, not much bigger.

Other factor to consider - wind, distance, temperature, sights, and (the most important ) skills - they will completely negate the rifle accuracy difference.

For example - bullet drop from 50 to 55 meters is ~1.7-2.2cm (according to http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/22ballistics.html), so unless your targets are sitting on the ruler - the distance will have major factor on your accuracy.

 

[jakfrost]

Do not worry about rifle accuracy at all.
IMHO the difference between Action 54 and Action 64 - at most the few millimeters at 50m distance, and Walther should be not that far.
This kind of rifles give the group size of 5-7 mm, not much bigger.

Other factor to consider - wind, distance, temperature, sights, and (the most important ) skills - they will completely negate the rifle accuracy difference.

For example - bullet drop from 50 to 55 meters is ~1.7-2.2cm (according to http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/22ballistics.html), so unless your targets are sitting on the ruler - the distance will have major factor on your accuracy.

WOW...great link, thank you. Lots of stuff to read and absorb...so many factors involved in the making of a great group. Seems the gun is the least of my worries!

Jim