Corps eyes next-generation service rifles

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Corps eyes next-generation service rifles
www.marinecorpstimes.com/
By Dan Lamothe - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jun 27, 2011 8:33:29 EDT

MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO, Va. — The Marine Corps is exploring a service rifle overhaul that could lead to the adoption of adjustable butt stocks, free-floating barrels and common slings on more than 200,000 weapons.

The proposals, among those recommended recently at the 2011 Combat Marksmanship Symposium, could lead to some of the most significant upgrades to the Corps’ service rifles since the 5.56mm M16A4 and M4 were adopted early during the Iraq war.

Some of the updates have been under consideration for years, but were sidelined by the Corps’ approval process and philosophical differences among top Marine officers. It isn’t assured that all of the upgrades will be adopted, but they have unified support from Marines who oversee marksmanship, said Col. Timothy Armstrong, head of Weapons Training Battalion, based at Quantico.

The recommendations will be pushed up the chain of command, and Marine Corps Systems Command will lead acquisitions projects.

“We are exploring potential materiel solutions where tactics, techniques and procedures will not resolve the issue,” said Barbara Hamby, a MARCORSYSCOM spokeswoman.

The Corps currently has more than 200,000 M16A4s and 80,000 M4s in its inventory, with the M16A4 serving as the primary rifle. The service issues M4 carbines primarily to vehicle operators and other Marines whose jobs render the M16A4’s 20-inch barrel cumbersome. The M4 has a 14.5-inch barrel, making it better in close-quarters combat, but diminishing accuracy and stopping power, especially at ranges beyond 200 yards.

The symposium was held in March, and recommendations were released June 3 in Marine administrative message 320/11. Weapons Training Battalion officials elaborated on the plans in aninterview with Marine Corps Times. They include:

Adjustable stocks
The M4 already has an adjustable butt stock on it, a development that enables soldiers and Marines to shoulder their weapon better, even while wearing body armor. The M16A4 does not, however, creating problems for shorter Marines, who struggle to get enough distance between their shooting eye and the optic while aiming.

At the symposium, marksmanship officials backed replacing the M16A4’s solid, 11-inch stock with an adjustable one similar to the M4’s, adding momentum to an argument that dates back years.

Historically, critics have questioned whether eliminating the solid M16A4 stock would weaken a workhorse weapon. It’s effective in hand-to-hand combat, where a butt stroke can be used to kill or incapacitate enemies, they say. The stock also comes in handy during the two-man lift, where two Marines hold each end of a weapon and hoist a third grunt over a wall or into a second-story window.

Proponents of the adjustable stock say those arguments are outdated and holding up progress. The Army has used the M4 as its primary service weapon for years with few complaints about its stock, they point out. Adjustable stock advocates also say the two-man lift and butt-stroking are uncommon, and in a pinch, the barrel of the rifle can be swung to incapacitate or kill a combatant.

Each of the changes they have proposed, including the butt stock swap, is rooted in analysis to improve combat effectiveness, Armstrong said.

“We’re trying to institute change in an organized fashion, based not off emotion or who talks the loudest,” he said. “It’s more looking at the data and the true analysis that takes place.”

Free-floating barrels
Marine officials also recommended adopting a free-floating rail system on all M16A4s and M4s. It’s a technique already used to increase accuracy on many of the Corps’ weapons, including the 7.62mm M40 and M110 sniper rifles and the 5.56mm M27 infantry automatic rifle.

Barrels of both the M16A4 and M4 attach to the rest of the rifle in several locations. That can affect accuracy, both in combat and on the range. For one, if tension is placed on a weapon’s sling incorrectly to draw a rifle close to fire, it can pull the barrel out of alignment with the optic, throwing off the zeroing of the weapon.

Incorporating a free-floating rail system would connect the barrel only with the receiver. That would keep the weapon’s zeroing truer, even when the rifle was placed under heavy sling tension or the weight of optics, pointers and other equipment.

“I’m not saying we’re not getting excellent results right now, but we are teaching them to compensate for the fact that it’s not a free-floating barrel,” said Chief Warrant Officer-3 Christian Wade, a gunner at Weapons Training Battalion. “It would be easier if it was, without a doubt.”

Marksmanship officials recommended that the adjustable butt stock and free-floating rail system be added on existing rifles at the same time.

Common slings
Marksmanship officials also backed the Corps adopting a common weapon sling that can be used anywhere, including during qualifications on all four tables of the Known Distance course of fire and in combat. The sling that will most likely be pursued for common use will have two points and work on all M4s and M16A4s.

Marines today use a variety of slings, and units frequently purchase their own with supplemental money received 180 days before deployment.

“Through testing and evaluation, we’re trying to get the Marine Corps steered toward a sling that has the most, broadest utility for the money,” Wade said.

One exception: The Corps will continue to field separate “parade slings” for use during ceremonies.

Eye-relief enhancement kit
An eye-relief enhancement kit for the M16A4 should be adopted Corps-wide as an interim solution until the adjustable butt stock is adopted, marksmanship officials also recommended.

The kits would allow Marines to keep their shooting eyes far enough from their optics to avoid getting hit in the face after a weapon recoils. Ideally, a Marine should have about 1½ inches of “eye relief” while looking through an optic. Currently, that’s a problem for many Marines, especially when body armor changes how the solid stock is shouldered.

The kit mounts to the rifle’s Picatinny rail, adding adjustable brackets that help a Marine mount his optic in the correct spot, given his height, arm length and the equipment and uniform he is wearing. It already has been fielded to thousands of Marines in deploying infantry battalions and has been tested by lieutenants in marksmanship training at The Basic School at Quantico.

Statistics were not available, but adding the kit to a rifle has helped to boost entry-level training scores there substantially, Wade said.

Other recommendations
Marine officials also backed the adoption of a different optic mount for nearly every rifle. Currently, the TA51 mount made by Trijicon is used to attach an optic to the rail of an M16A4 or M4. Marines tighten thumb screws to fasten it in place, and are ordered to use a small screwdriver or piece of metal to make sure it’s tight. They’ve been known to shake loose, however, especially when a Marine is involved in a firefight or some other situation where he is sending a lot of lead downrange in a short period of time.

Marksmanship officials backed a shift to a different mount made by Larue Tactical. Instead of thumb screws, it uses small “throw levers,” making it easier to remove a scope if a Marine needs to transition to his backup iron sights. The optic also doesn’t come loose the way it can when thumb screws work their way free as a weapon vibrates.

The Larue mounts will already be familiar to some Marines. They have been used for several years to mount optics to the M249 squad automatic weapon, Wade said. The Larue mounts also have been issued with the Corps’ IARs, which use the SAW day optic.

The symposium also yielded one recommendation that won’t require many changes: Make sure ambidextrous controls are issued to units for left-handed shooters. Currently, many units buy the controls, which make the magazine release and selector lever quickly accessible to southpaws, whose trigger-hand thumbs are on the opposite side of the rifle.

Marksmanship officials recommended that the Corps issue ambidextrous controls to unit armories to be installed as needed for left-handed shooters. They shouldn’t be adopted on all rifles, however, Wade said. Doing so would cost unnecessary money and add unneeded moving parts to right-handers’ rifles, he said.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/06/marine-corps-eyes-next-rifles-m16a4-m4-062711/
 
Should be called "Corps Eyes Decades Old Proven Ideas... Everyone Else Have Long Since Adopted." Its kinda sad when they have marines who can't get a decent sight picture and that is preferred so that they can in that one remote instant in time possibly butt-stroke someone.
 
The mounting bracket is stupid. Cheaper to buy off the shelf collapsible stock kit right the way and get unit armorers install them. The only low cost long term solution... The cure of the root cause.
 
Yea the problem is only half solved by the stock length, the M4 length barrel is a real nice compliment to a collapsible but stock.
 
They need to go 7.62 on all rifles.

you've NEVER toted a full 7.62x51 kit for an extended period of time ,have you? i mean the fn/g3/m14 with the CANVAS webbing- even in moderate climes, you still lose about a quart or better of liquids a day through perspiration-most people don't realize it, but even replacing the canvas with nylon made a difference- now you want to go BACK to the 7.62x51? while most of us agree the 5.56 isn't quite there , the 7.62 is definately a step backwards - the 6.8 /6,5 is a better choice-we DON'T need to engage at 600 yards and HOPE we've got enough oomph to do the job- the whole concept of the 223/556 was that the average battle range had decreased to 400 yards, and that's how far the early m16s would shoot; trouble is there was no more steam when they got there- being able to hole a nato at 800 /1k ( which was the basis for the ss109 round/1/7 twist) means NOTHING in the real world
 
The caliber issue has been solved since the 1930s

The caliber issue has been extensively studied and tested since 1930s!
Guess what: when the US Army rejected 276 Peterson and decided to keep using 30-06, their minimal caliber requirement were for a .25 caliber.
The .30 caliber/.303 caliber/8mm caliber was required in 1900s to stop cavalry charges, not infantry charges where a much smaller caliber is sufficient.

After WWII and seeing the German MP44/StG44 in action, the British Army went into for greater details in its studies and its recommendation were for 6mm to 7mm caliber, 100gr-140gr aerodynamic efficient bullet, 2300fps with a maximum 1600ft-lbs - 1800ft-lbs to keep the a rifle controllable in automatic fire.

The basic fact is that free recoil is proportional to the square of momentum.
K = p ^ 2 / (2 * m)
Simply put, for a given sectional density, recoil is proportional to the square of the caliber.
Chose you cartridge: 6mm (243 Win, 6mm BR), 6.5 (6.5 Grendel), .270 (6.8 SPC), 7mm (7mm BR), and then optimize it for use in a selective fire rifle and you have a winner.

The problem is that you might get 50% gain in stopping power over 223 Rem but also a 30%-40% ammo weight gain which implies a real gain of only 10%-20%!

Alex
 
5.56 is ideal in my opinion.;) Most people want something new... just cause it's new.:yingyang:

7.62 and bigger is great for special tasks. But for the average infantry. 5.56 is the best.;)
 
5.56 is ideal in my opinion.;) Most people want something new... just cause it's new.:yingyang:

7.62 and bigger is great for special tasks. But for the average infantry. 5.56 is the best.;)
Yep, the grass is always greener on the other side too. Even watching WW2 documentaries, you'll hear how the Russians always wanted to use German guns and the Germans always wanted to use Russian guns. Each side thought the others firearms were better.
 
5.56 is ideal in my opinion.;) Most people want something new... just cause it's new.:yingyang:

7.62 and bigger is great for special tasks. But for the average infantry. 5.56 is the best.;)


In my opinion 5.56mm/223 was a head of it's time and is not going anywhere....I would add a few more 7.62mm battle/designated marksmen rifles to a platoon size but that's it. As for the changes the corps are doing, well hurry up already...Larue mounts are a must....free float rails are a must as well, just get a contract from KAC, old school stock still has it's uses and i wouldn't drop it completely from the line up.

I have always noticed that people in the military are afraid of change, they tend to make mountains out of mole hills and get baffled by the slightest change to there weapons or gear, example the "Cloth the Soldier Program" in the CF there were so many better options out there but the average soldier and officers a like in many ways, were way out of touch what was already available...As a result we were still changing our gear for deployments over seas. IAR is must in my opinion though, especially with some soldiers with smaller frames and sizes, during training give those guys the C9's on deployments give them the IAR's with a few drum mags, possible the Surefire 60rd mag.But in know way does this mean drop the C6 or C9/Saws..LMG/GPMG.
 
the Brits have been doing idea caliber trials for over 100 years

the issue was resolved long ago and there is a lot of reading


the 6.8 SPR is nothing more then a 30-30 round with the rim removed (30 rem) shortened and the walls blown out a bit... fairly close to the 7mm Waters really


you know what would make a fantastic round, take the 7.62x45 developed by CZ post WW2 and neck it down to someting between 6 and 7 mm


but really under 300m 5.56 is adequate and untill doctrine is changed thats what we will be using.
 
And... why wouldn't you just buddy boost with your freaking hands?

some people need excuses to remain in the stone age. Who bets they go to a collapsing stock and retain the 20 inch barrel (just like we did with the POS C7A2), then 1 year from now guys are screaming for a shorter barrel when they could have just gone with the M4/C8 in the first place.
 
5.56 is ideal in my opinion.;) Most people want something new... just cause it's new.:yingyang:

7.62 and bigger is great for special tasks. But for the average infantry. 5.56 is the best.;)
Agreed, I started my military career like alot of others with an FNC1A1.
But during the Falklands War, British soldiers often ran out of 7.62 and employed stretcher bearers to resupply them with more ammo.
For general issue, 5.56 meets/exceeds our soldiers needs I believe. (That 77 grain Mk II has really good press & I wish our guys had it)
It is kind of too bad we did not at least trial a 6mm-7mm cartridge though, way back when.
 
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