Short Magnums. What are they bringing to the field?

jethunter said:
There you finally found a valid reason to justify the short mags - because you like it.

The short magnums don't improve performance over the long magnums and they weigh more than the real lightweights. OTOH they work pretty well and are as capable as the long mags and that's not damning with faint praise.

Personally I'll live with the non-existant loss of defensive capability that my 7-08 lightweight suffers compared to your 7mm shorty :p because when it comes to climbing mountains I do like lightweight rifles.
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And that's exactly my point- weight-wise, the WSM's kinda meet halfway between the bigger, long magnums, and the smaller, true lightweights, while matching the velocity of the long mags. Pretty good compromise, IMO. The only way to get a standard mag, like the 7RM, down as light as the WSM is to get custom work done, or buy a very expensive rifle like a NULA, Rifles, Inc., etc.

And I agree, the 7 Wizzum might not add any true defensive advantage over your 7-08, but after having been around a couple of dozen grizzly bears, more than a couple at under 100 yards, and one at about 10 feet, a little more power makes me feel a little better ;) (the more the merrier when you're staring down a big boar grizz at 10 feet). Admittedly, it's more of an emotional thing than a logical one. BUT, the 7WSM DOES add long-range ballistic capability over your 7-08, which is the main reason I got it instead of a slower 7mm.
 
Jordan Smith said:
And that's exactly my point- weight-wise, the WSM's kinda meet halfway between the bigger, long magnums, and the smaller, true lightweights, while matching the velocity of the long mags. Pretty good compromise, IMO. The only way to get a standard mag, like the 7RM, down as light as the WSM is to get custom work done, or buy a very expensive rifle like a NULA, Rifles, Inc., etc.

And I agree, the 7 Wizzum might not add any true defensive advantage over your 7-08, but after having been around a couple of dozen grizzly bears, more than a couple at under 100 yards, and one at about 10 feet, a little more power makes me feel a little better ;) (the more the merrier when you're staring down a big boar grizz at 10 feet). Admittedly, it's more of an emotional thing than a logical one. BUT, the 7WSM DOES add long-range ballistic capability over your 7-08, which is the main reason I got it instead of a slower 7mm.
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As long as that works for you, i don't mind. It doesn't turn my crank but it would be a boring old world if we all carried the same rifles. I'm fairly neutral on the whole short mag discussion but i do enjoy popping balloons occasionally. Gives the newbs something to exercise their craniums. ;)

As far as a bear gun goes i'd have to respectfully disagree. At 50 yards the only difference between the defensive capabilities of a 7-08 or the 7mags will be wholly dependant on the bullet being used, not the cartridge that launched it. Anything over 50 yards and it's not defensive any more - it's bear hunting. Which brings us full circle back to my 300 winmag. A 200 gr nosler partition in my 8.5 lb rifle is going to shoot harder and buck less for follow up shots than the lighter rifles will, and that's why i don't like using lightweight rifles in the "magnum" cartridges.
 
No problems here, friend, and no balloons popped, either. I'm not sure what "newbs" you're referring to, but I think all it does is confuse the true newbies even more ;)

Regarding bear defense, you must have missed where I said that the difference between the 7-08 and the 7WSM to me is more of an emotional thing than a logical one ;) But to be honest with you, I'm fully confident that a 140gr TTSX at 3300fps will smack plenty hard and penetrate plenty deep to do what needs to be done, even with a head-on shot (probably exit the rear hams if it enters the head or chest, based on my experience shooting big bears). The proper 7mm 160gr bullet at 3100fps or 175gr at 2950-3000fps will do anything a 200gr .308" will do when launched from a .300WM, and I've found rifle fit and balance to do more for rifle control with fast follow-up shots than simply the weight of the rifle alone. I suspect we'll continue to have slightly different opinions on the matter, and that's okay, as long as your stuff works for you and mine works for me. I kind of doubt either of us will have a problem, though, since I've put 2 bullets lengthwise through a big, 450lbs bear, which both exited, and he hit the ground hard with each shot. The bullet- a 100gr TSX from a .25-06. ;)
 
Bears? whats most important? if WSM is better than a 7mm-08 or one bullet is better than another?
The most important thing? "BULLET PLACEMENT"......... big pissed off bear at 50 yards.
Ya better make the first shot a good shot.
 
Yessir.

I'm not sure how this morphed into a "which cartridge is better for bear" conversation. All I'm saying is that, having been in a stare-down with a big boar grizz at 10 feet, almost any gun feels like a pea shooter, and the same 7mm bullet going 400-450fps faster just gives me a bit better feeling. That's all. Not saying it would necessarily work better. Either would fail miserably if it doesn't hit something "immediately important to the bear's function". ;)
 
I like the short magnums. I don't think that they're more accurate or anything, but they do the job in a short action. THAT'S IT!

Do you think when the 30-06 came out over a hundred years ago, the old codgers of the day thought it was a great idea? of course not. I'm sure they were all saying "I've been killing stuff all my life with my _____ (fill in whatever cartridge). Why do I need some miracle 30-06? "

When smokeless powder came out, I'm sure the older hunters had the same thoughts. Things we working before, so why change anything. That new smokeless stuff is just a gimmick.

Now the WSM's are here, and becoming fairly well established.

So, like in times past, there's a certain population of hunters that are all scratching their heads and saying "I killed stuff before, why do I need anything new?"
Don't get all upset, or think about it too hard. It's just a magnum in a short action.

So, actually, that's another reason why I like the WSM's. It makes that certain population of hunters get all upset and look like this guy:
images7.jpg
 
Huntin' Gun said:
I like the short magnums. I don't think that they're more accurate or anything, but they do the job in a short action. THAT'S IT!

Do you think when the 30-06 came out over a hundred years ago, the old codgers of the day thought it was a great idea? of course not. I'm sure they were all saying "I've been killing stuff all my life with my _____ (fill in whatever cartridge). Why do I need some miracle 30-06? "

When smokeless powder came out, I'm sure the older hunters had the same thoughts. Things we working before, so why change anything. That new smokeless stuff is just a gimmick.

Now the WSM's are here, and becoming fairly well established.

So, like in times past, there's a certain population of hunters that are all scratching their heads and saying "I killed stuff before, why do I need anything new?"
Don't get all upset, or think about it too hard. It's just a magnum in a short action.

So, actually, that's another reason why I like the WSM's. It makes that certain population of hunters get all upset and look like this guy:
images7.jpg
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I agree with everything you are saying,.... to a point....

....Going from black powder,and clumps of lead fired in a 38-55 or 44-40 to a .30-06 was like this.......voice in Vox sound...."thats one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind". Remember Neil and Eagle one, ....I do from that July day in '69.

Going from a .270Winchester to a .270Winchester Short Magnum however, ...well,... that leap is not very far at all. One I'd say is more of a baby step, or even a gopher step, than saying it's a Giant leap for Riflekind.

Remember in my original post, alot of what got me to thinking on the WSM's, were so many posters in other threads masturbating over and always pointing others when they mentioned the .270 Winchester, skyward into the glorious light and sight of a .270WSM.
The 7mms and the .300s I'll grugingly accept a little more. :cheers:
 
Okay,.... I started this so I'll concede here and now with these points.

270WSM, who needs it,.. we got the lovely .270Winchester already for those small to medium long range mountain shots.

7mmWSM,...... okay I.m a Big 7 fan, so I can see the point in a short action sheep gun with ballistics amtching my beloved Magnum.++

300WSM, great cartridge in an autolaoder like a BAR, the short action mountain Rifle thing now being stretched a bit because the bullet weights and recoil go more with traditional weight Rifles aka ones the 300WM come in already.

325WSM, all I can say is .338WM.

So I see a winner with the 7WSM,.....the 270 and 325 falling of the tailgate, and the .300 holding it's own for the forseeable future, and if hunting actual picks up in Canada, so it will pick up with the new crowd.:cheers:
 
Now I'm confused and looking like this
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I don't see how 0.007" makes so much difference as to say one cartridge is useful and another is superfluous.

If we don't need the .270 wsm because we already have the lovely .270Win, then we don't need the 7mm WSM because we already have the .280Rem.

Then when you throw in the 7Rem Mag, then the 7WSM looks even more unnecessary.

Now, I own a 7mm WSM and love it, but I just have a hard time with your logic.

If the 7mmWSM would make a great, lightweight sheep rifle, then so would a .270WSM. It's only 0.007" different!

But you did say that you have a preference for .284 caliber.

And that's really what the WSM's offer. More choice and it's really just a matter of personal preference.
 
Huntin' Gun said:
Now I'm confused and looking like this
images7.jpg


I don't see how 0.007" makes so much difference as to say one cartridge is useful and another is superfluous.

If we don't need the .270 wsm because we already have the lovely .270Win, then we don't need the 7mm WSM because we already have the .280Rem.

Then when you throw in the 7Rem Mag, then the 7WSM looks even more unnecessary.

Now, I own a 7mm WSM and love it, but I just have a hard time with your logic.

If the 7mmWSM would make a great, lightweight sheep rifle, then so would a .270WSM. It's only 0.007" different!

But you did say that you have a preference for .284 caliber.

And that's really what the WSM's offer. More choice and it's really just a matter of personal preference.
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Sorry, I see by your looks you do need some clarification:p,
It's got nothing to do with the .007" between the .270WSM and the 7WSM its got to do with where they fall aside their long standing comtempories in ballistic performance. Look at the Ballistics, don't use .007" and say I can't see the difference, can you see the difference.
Such would be a distorted comparison between say the .257 Weatherby magnum and the 260 Rem, only .007" whats the big deal right.

I'm stating the .270WSM is not ahead of the .270W a standard caliber, enough to see the need for it in the long range mountain Rifle type cartridge. It is not a .270 Weatherby magnum, which Roy offered to de throne the winchester round. It is not this round in anyway shape or form. Sorry.
The 7mmWSM has a slight advantage over the 7RemMag ballistics and in a lightweight mountain Rifle, this would probly be the threshold of recoil acceptable in such lightweight short action firearm. So a good option if so chosen in the lwt.

The other 2, ....I don't know what else to say my friend.
 
The numbers are in and:

270 WSM sells extremely well,
300 WSM sells well,
323 WSM is great but sells really slowly,
7 WSM is dead but is also a better cartridge than 270 WSM.

There are lots of reasons for this but basically
  • 270 WSM - North American prefer to punch .277" entry holes rather than .284" entry holes in game,
  • 300 WSM - 30 Calibers are great for large game,
  • 323 WSM - everyone want a short action 338 Win Mag so this will have to do for now but it's not a .338
  • 7 WSM - Was made redundant but 270 WSM which makes Magic 27 caliber entry holes in game (You can't beat Magic...)
 
So the .270WSM doesn't offer enough of a ballistic advantage over the .270Win.
But the 7WSM does offer a ballistic advantage over the .280rem.

:confused:

Eh... if that washes with you, I'm okay with that. :cheers:

Heck, I own 2 .280's, 3 .270's and a 7mm wsm. A lot of unnecessary overlap there. We all make our own judgements that seem reasonable in our own minds that others wouldn't agree with.
It doesn't matter if I don't agree with your logic, as long as it makes sense to you :)
 
Huntin' Gun said:
I was just told on another thread that the 7WSM is making a comeback.

I don't know if that's true. Just saying...
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7 WSM is getting killed by many factors but basically Winchester first made it possible to chamber a 7 WSM round in a 270 WSM chamber...
They had to reintroduce the cartridge after 270 WSM was already established...
Finally, there was a huge pent up demand for a new 27 caliber cartridge while there way too many 7mm cartridges.

7 WSM is better but it's also somewhat redundant and late to the party...
Even Winchester 7 WSM ammo is very difficult to find but it might live on like the 264 Win Mag, the 6.5 Rem Mag and 358 Winchester which are dead in the marketplace but still produced and distributed somehow, somewhere.

I would love to be able to choose a 7 WSM instead of a 270 WSM rifle but it's simply impossible now,

Alex
 
Huntin' Gun said:
So the .270WSM doesn't offer enough of a ballistic advantage over the .270Win.
But the 7WSM does offer a ballistic advantage over the .280rem.

:confused:

Eh... if that washes with you, I'm okay with that. :cheers:

Heck, I own 2 .280's, 3 .270's and a 7mm wsm. A lot of unnecessary overlap there. We all make our own judgements that seem reasonable in our own minds that others wouldn't agree with.
It doesn't matter if I don't agree with your logic, as long as it makes sense to you :)
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How did the 280 get in here? The 7mmWSM has small ballistic advantage over the 7mmRem Mag(not the 7mmExpress) and that in a short case, which itself has a substanial advantage over the 280!
The 270WSM offers nothing over the .270 Standard Caliber ,except short action.

Are you still not seeing my point, or just trying to confuse the points made thus far?
 
joe-nwt said:
Now you've done it. The sheep hunters will be here any second to tell us how a few ounces make all the world of difference when you spend a day climbing mountains.:stirthepot2:

I bet you didn't know that the mountains that sheep inhabit are uphill, both ways......;)
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That's actually quite true. It's at least as hard coming down as it is climbing up, especially if you are packing a sheep.

Ted
 
The 7mm WSM offers a slight ballistic advantage over the 7mm Rem Mag in FACTORY offerings only.
The 7mm Rem Mag case has more capacity, therefore will drive equal weight bullets faster, all other factors being equal.
The factory offerings in the WSM series are full pressure offerings, whereas some of the others have been watered down over the years.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
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