Optics for SAN Sniper - NF versus Leupold

UncleWalther

UncleWalther

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I need to get some glass for a Swiss Arms Sniper. I am flip-flopping between a Nightforce NSX 5.5-22x50 and a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 8.5-25x50.

I like them both, and have good success with Leupold in the past. Is there a reason though that one is inherently better than the other?
 
UW. I had them both but in lower power 4.5-14 mark 4 and 3.5-15 nf. I can not come up with any valid reason why you should pick one over the other. It really comes down to personal preference. You couldn't have picked two more evenly matched optics, to move up you do have to go with s&b, and you gain only a little. Nice thing about your choice is you can't pick the wrong one.
 
I've seen both NF and S&B die at shoots... I haven't seen a Mk4 die at one yet. Doesn't mean it can't happen but I'm very happy with Leupold scopes.
 
I wouldn't bother with the 5.5x20something scopes, I'd stick to a 3.5x15 power.
Leopold glass blows in comparison to Night Force...
 
UW:

If I may share a couple of thoughts.

I think its tough to go wrong with either brand, however if this is going to get used a lot, I would tend to go with an optic where the reticule matches the turret adjustments. For example In the Night force, and S&B (I am sure there are other, these are just the ones that come to mind at the moment) you can get a reticle in Mils, and turrets that have adjustment in mils. Further if you prefer MOA you can get MOA reticles with turrets that Have MOA adjustment. This way its much easier to call and make adjustments. I myself for my precision rifles have a spotting scope, and a Night force optic both in MOA. This way my spotter can call out the MOA adjustment required, and I can click the turrets accordingly. Easy Peezy.

Leupold makes fine durable optics, however I never understood why they would offer a Mil-radian reticule, with MOA adjustments. Don't get me wrong, there is a mathematical conversion, and they even make slide rules and I believe there is even an app to do this. It just that under the pressure of competition or intense training, my math really does leave a lot to be desired.

From a Warranty stand point, there are good options right here in Alberta Namely Korth for Leupold, and ATRS for Night force.

I am not sure what your rate of twist is in that rifle, or what your plans are for this rifle, but I think 5.5-25*50 is too much glass. If one takes a hard look a precision built AR's in 308, they have arguably a precision range (MOA or less capability) of about 600 yards or so. After that, your in bolt gun territory. So with that in mind, I think you will find that 3.5-10x, or my personal favorite of a 4.5-14x will serve you very well. By all means go with a 30mm or lager main body, and a 50mm or larger objective. The ability to gather light in all conditions is always important. It is also however important to Match the profile of the optic with the profile of the rifle.

Now please keep in mind that I am just a lay person, and the above are just my thoughts.

regards and all the best

AbH
 
UW:

I have owned both and recently sold the NF. I have an affinity towards Leupold and favor them over all my other scopes (I own 5). Either way, I don't see you going wrong. Contrary to popular belief, I find that the glass on the Leupolds just as good as the NF glass.

I recently purchase a new Leupy 6.5 x 22 TMR with M5 Mil/Mil turrets. This is the newest in the Mark 4 series which addresses the Mil/MOA issue. This new scope has amazing clarity/light enhancement in low light and the glass is extremely clear.
 
HeadDamage said:
At least the leupold holds it's POI ;)
Click to expand...

If you're indicating that NF optics do not, I call BS. You my have witnessed a defective model(which happens with any brand) but it is far from the norm. NF is far more popular for precision work and hard use than Leupold. The etched reticle is leaps ahead of wire ones.

TDC
 
I like the idea of a Nightforce 3.5-15x50 with NP-R1 reticule and zero stop on a SAN sniper.

It's more of a field/tactical rifle and scope set up, with plenty of magnification for the platform. IMHO at least.

:cheers:

And nice rifle by the way! :eek:

Edit: Also maybe a S&B 4–16 x 50 PM II LP with P4 fine reticule.
 
Here's my take on the Leupold Vs. Nightforce debate.

Nightforce:
Pros:
1) Etched reticle, not wire
2) Constant eye relief
3) Excellent reticle choices

The main issue with the Nightforce is the price. Otherwise it does everything well.

The Leupold Mark 4 and regular scopes (Honestly I don't see much difference between the Mark4 variables and the civilian offerings) have a lot of change in eye relief throughout their magnification range. The higher the magnification the worse it is. For example the Mark 4 8-25x the change in eye relief is 3.7 to 5.3 inches. That's a lot. If you change magnification you'll have to adjust to keep your perfect sight picture. Also the reticle choices on the Mark4 aren't my favourite.

Personally if those disadvantages are acceptable to you, then I'd go with a Sightron SIII at half the price. However with the type of firearm you plan on putting your scope on, you should go with a military grade scope. I went with a NF 5.5-22x on my Armalite (DND) AR10 for exactly the above reasons. Of course Schmidt and Bender etc are other alternatives. At the time I found them cost prohibitive. Considering the cost of a Swiss Arms sniper, you may want to check those out.
 
I would agree with others regarding magnification. In fact had the NF 3.5-15 on my CG and dumped it in favor of the 2.5-10, which will get dumped in favor of 1-8 S&B short dot. Perfect optic for the SAN CG which gives up nothing to the sniper, other than cool factor. The sniper is no more capable than the CG regarding both range and accuracy. However that's not the point, the op wants a high power optic and a fine one at that and the choice between the two, really comes down to personal preference as both a great optics
 
I've had a Leupold 8.5 - 25 (not mk4) on my long range precision rifle since KevinB and me used to go out and scare targets when he was still in town. So that's 10 years now, and I still love the optics. I utilize the .25 dot on fine hair reticule. I haven't been able to determine the need for the mil dots for myself, as I shoot on DCRA targets, on known distance ranges.
I like the reticule because it is the least obstructive, least "busy", one I could find.
I don't think I could add any more to what's already been said regarding Leupold's glass,,,, great. Return to zero,,, great. Ease of operation,,, great. Eye relief,,,, don't notice the difference when I'm shooting as I'm too busy watching the target and pressing trigger at the movers. That's about the only time I've actually turned the scope down from 25X, is with the closer movers. And again, Leupold and Korth service, from what I hear cause I've never needed it, are good. Price about $1000 less than a comparable NF scope.

I also have a 2.5 - 10 Night Force on my service rifle. I picked it up about 7 years after the Leupold. It has mil dots, and if there was some way I could "clean" up the picture, I would. I personally have no need for the mil dots. I like the NF glass. I wish this NF scope has a better come up reference lines on the turrets. And because this one doesn't have the zero stop, can be a pain.
The glass is great. LCF on a service gun, great with the ADM mount.

I think the Leupold scope would physically be a bit smaller/lighter than the NF of same magnification.

I've used both scopes in low light and with a good NV mounted on the eye objective. There isn't a huge difference in my perception of light gathering with either set at the same magnification.

Soooooo, if you're asking - if you are stuck on a higher magnification scope, ie. 25X, I usually go with I like the best and not necessarily keep lower budget in mind. If I want it, I get it. And those are what I got for their uses. Saving a $1000 was just a side benefit.

I would do exactly same today, as I did before, and buy another Leupold.

My .02c
 
Here's the same debate, about a year ago on 6mmBR. Keep in mind though their views are based mostly on long range shooting.

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3261663

I own two Leupold scopes. Both are the 6.5-20x EFR models for high end rimfires. Excellent for their applications. But when it comes to Centerfire I prefer the Zeiss Conquest, and NF offerings. For simple 3-9x scopes I prefer the Burris Fullfield II with ballistic plex. Sightron SIII will be another one I will look at. The only scope that doesn't have any compromises is the NF. The others listed are very good, but there are still trade offs.

The reality is any of these scopes would work well. They are all very good scopes. The trick is finding the best one for your applications. Are there trade offs you're willing to make? Is price a concern? Etc.
 
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