How to properly install and align railed handguards on the M14
- Thread starter suprathepeg
- Start date
So suprathepeg are you saying that on your UTG rail that there was no differance of depth on the underside of the rail were it meets the op-rod guide?
Hmmm...
Is there any way you can post pic's of the underside of your rail it's self (not attched to the rifle)?
Hmmm...
Is there any way you can post pic's of the underside of your rail it's self (not attched to the rifle)?
Nope the one I got is the same height all the way down. Its just an extrusion so the profile is consistent where its not machined.
Honestly I don't want to take it apart now as its all loctited into place but if there enough people looking for the info I'll do it in an additional vid.
FWIW my ultimak was the same way. Its pretty easy to see when you install an optic that is set at dead zereo and shoot you'll see your groups are all high and it takes quite a bit of adjustment to get it onto zero. With my ultimak my scope at dead zero printed almost perfect windage and way high. Meaning that the rail was true but the barrel isn't. Which should be the case with all tapered barrels.
Honestly I don't want to take it apart now as its all loctited into place but if there enough people looking for the info I'll do it in an additional vid.
FWIW my ultimak was the same way. Its pretty easy to see when you install an optic that is set at dead zereo and shoot you'll see your groups are all high and it takes quite a bit of adjustment to get it onto zero. With my ultimak my scope at dead zero printed almost perfect windage and way high. Meaning that the rail was true but the barrel isn't. Which should be the case with all tapered barrels.
ya'll know that this utg rail had it's origins in airsoft right?
the models i have installed , most of them had the upside down utg on the scope mount hole side. these where also detail machined around the oprod guide and other than the odd one neding a bit of hole reaming.... all have fit up level both for and aft and side to side. Perhaps there is a batch of wonky ones out there?
unfortunately i can't see the vid as i'm on dial up but i'm installing another Ultimak rail tomorrow and will be reinstalling a UTG (with upside down label) , both to clients rifles. I'll report back if i have to deviate from my normal installation methods for both items.
the models i have installed , most of them had the upside down utg on the scope mount hole side. these where also detail machined around the oprod guide and other than the odd one neding a bit of hole reaming.... all have fit up level both for and aft and side to side. Perhaps there is a batch of wonky ones out there?
unfortunately i can't see the vid as i'm on dial up but i'm installing another Ultimak rail tomorrow and will be reinstalling a UTG (with upside down label) , both to clients rifles. I'll report back if i have to deviate from my normal installation methods for both items.
Yes but thats not what I'm talking about.
Doc check for paralell against the bottom of the receiver and I bet one of your stocks that both rails don't line up with the level plane of the bore or the receiver. Ultimak may have changed their design in the couple years since I had mine but the UTG for sure will be canted. Thats why you were modifying the hole on the receiver mount and why the rear picatinny mount just doesn't seem to line up right all the time
.The rear barrel mount and the receiver bolt are both inline with where they should be, because the basic profile is extruded they saved some machine time by not extruding a profile that is relevant to the front barrel mount internal diameter and then machining the rear one. This is evidenced by the fact that you can easily fit metal shims in the front area and still clamp it down. If the ID of the front mount was smaller it would not work.
Wierd?
Cuz I level, level, level my rifle and rail & tighten up the side bolt. Then I dab some blue lock tight and tighten up the 2 barrel mounts just enough to bite but not enough to move the rail and haven't notice any caint in the rail. This would explain why some people have reported having zeroing issues with there UTG rail's. Nice work with the spent casing idea suprathepeg
On a side note my favorite firearm combo has got to be a 1911 with and M14.
Cuz I level, level, level my rifle and rail & tighten up the side bolt. Then I dab some blue lock tight and tighten up the 2 barrel mounts just enough to bite but not enough to move the rail and haven't notice any caint in the rail. This would explain why some people have reported having zeroing issues with there UTG rail's. Nice work with the spent casing idea suprathepeg
On a side note my favorite firearm combo has got to be a 1911 with and M14.
well..... i dunno what to say.
I've installed the UTG today and the Ultimak M8 , both to 2009 vintage bell lifestyles Poly techs...... and they are both level, muzzle to chamber and parrallel to the receiver plane/bore center. I also checked and triple checked to make sure i wasn't missing something. I did have to slightly enlarge the UTG side hole to accomodate the ARMS 18 side screw i replace the UTG screw with in order to get the side to side level on the UTG.
I did not have to use shims at any point on either mount to achieve both level or parrallelism to the action/bore. The utg model has the "UTG" label right side up and was purchased thru an american online outlet as per info from my client who contacted me as soon as he saw this thread panicking about this new issue with railed handguards.
Not trying to take away from the potential value of this video or method, but i have not personally run across it when fitting these mounts to chinese rifles.
However, if your rifle exhibits this issue when installing one of the handguard rail type mounts...... this solution is a good one.
I've installed the UTG today and the Ultimak M8 , both to 2009 vintage bell lifestyles Poly techs...... and they are both level, muzzle to chamber and parrallel to the receiver plane/bore center. I also checked and triple checked to make sure i wasn't missing something. I did have to slightly enlarge the UTG side hole to accomodate the ARMS 18 side screw i replace the UTG screw with in order to get the side to side level on the UTG.
I did not have to use shims at any point on either mount to achieve both level or parrallelism to the action/bore. The utg model has the "UTG" label right side up and was purchased thru an american online outlet as per info from my client who contacted me as soon as he saw this thread panicking about this new issue with railed handguards.
Not trying to take away from the potential value of this video or method, but i have not personally run across it when fitting these mounts to chinese rifles.
However, if your rifle exhibits this issue when installing one of the handguard rail type mounts...... this solution is a good one.
I don't notice any issues with leveling on my rifle mount. Both the front and rear sit level and perfectly parallel to my receiver without any mods. However, I do notice that the rear dovetail mount is still ever so slightly on a lower plane than the hand guard rails of my rifle. It seems that in your video at 2:55-3:00 there is a similar gap between the lower mount and the straight edge, while level with the front rails.
Perhaps this gap is negligible, but I've yet to throw a scope on to see how my rifle shoots in this config.
What scope rings are you using in the video? I'm beginning to wonder if this height differential can be treated with a combination of certain rings.
Perhaps this gap is negligible, but I've yet to throw a scope on to see how my rifle shoots in this config.
What scope rings are you using in the video? I'm beginning to wonder if this height differential can be treated with a combination of certain rings.
thanks for posting this. Its very informative.
It seems that these problems with the UTG rail are complicated with the use of the rear (charger) sight block? In cases where the UTG rail is strictly being used as a scout mount.. with optic forward of the receiver, are there still identified issues?
It seems that these problems with the UTG rail are complicated with the use of the rear (charger) sight block? In cases where the UTG rail is strictly being used as a scout mount.. with optic forward of the receiver, are there still identified issues?
Thanks for the info. Just got my modded M14 back from M14 Doc so I will be installing my tri-rail tonight and test it all at the range tomorrow. I will be using a forward red dot so I won't be able to really comment on adverse effects regarding the angles on the tri-rail and stripper clip mount but I will certainly look at it and compare the slope just for my own personal verification in case I opt for a scope in the conventional configuation down the road.
Regards,
Regards,
Works just fine without the rear rail.
Right now my setup is with a Bushnell Holosight with a 1MOA reticle mounted in a scout position. As far as I can tell, the come up in range from 100m to 200m in moa click values is the same as irons.
Just make sure that you level the rail before you clamp the brackets down. Currently my barrel is ever so slightly out of index. I suspect that this is why the screw hole doesnt align properly with the receiver hole when the rail is leveled properly. Since I cant afford a barrel vice, my quick fix was just to dremel the UTG screw hole slightly wider to compensate for the indexing problem.
on a side note........ and no i do not have pics...... but Vltor has been prototyping a new m14 top rail and will be selling it direct rather than thru springfield like the current cluster rail. Hopefully once the rush from the americans is over, we might see a few come north. Looks big, not sure i like the look of it appearance wise, but it just might be the ticket for those looking for a handguard system from a trusted source in accessories.
I mounted mine and it fit well but.... I find that it is out of parallel with regards to the cross section of the rifle. Everything looked a-ok unit I installed my RDS (Bushnell's ACOG copy). It is definately canted to the right. I disassembled and re-fit after ensuring the rifle was level in my gun vise, trying to keep the rail level to the rifle but no go. Will modifiying the screw attachment hole at the reciever fix my problem? If I elongate it upwards in theory it should allow me to rotate it to the left a little more therefore correcting the cant. Any thoughts?
Regards,
Regards,
