50BMG VS 416 barrett

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dirteemax

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So i'm considering trying the 416 Barrett rout. Seen a few comparisons on the internet. everything i see though is always comparing the crappiest 50bmg round to the best 416 rounds you can get. Any one ever owned both of these guns? anyone have any real life experience with the 416?? is it actually a better round then the 50cal??

one thing i'm finding is that it is way way easier to get reloading components for the 416 seeing as its not banned from export from the US. New Barrett and IMI brass is available, hornnaday makes a 450gr MATCH bullet and there are lots of companies making CNC machined bullets including a few in Canada.

Thoughts Opinions??? Has anyone given the 416 a fair chance in Canada?? or does every one just shot th eidea down rite away because they have or just like the 50BMG better?????
 
Is .416 Barrett ammo and components available here?
I thought that as is is based on the 50bmg, and shares the same head diameter, the Yanks wont let it out.
Or is that just the gun itself, as a simple barrel change would be back to 50bmg?
 
tootall said:
Is .416 Barrett ammo and components available here?
I thought that as is is based on the 50bmg, and shares the same head diameter, the Yanks wont let it out.
Or is that just the gun itself, as a simple barrel change would be back to 50bmg?
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Yes you can get loaded ammo, and reloading components here. As long as you have an export permit just like any other type of ammo. Just everything 50cal is banned from export.

yes it is a 50bmg case shortened and necked down. so yes if you got a 416 rifle from the US you could re barrel it and have a 50bmg but they wont let a barrett rifle out of the country in 50BMG or 416

but i have herd of other rifle manufactures making 416 that are allowed to be exported???? Don't know what ones though, just not the barrett
 
Why not include the .408 CheyTac? Not that’s it better or anything - I’m just curious that’s all.
 
There are a lot of Barrett owners in California; enough that when 50cals were outlaw'd there, it made sense for Ronnie to come out with a new caliber so that owners could keep their guns. The answer? 416. It was excellent marketing with huge sales to be made for Barrett.

There is something to be said for a larger, heavier bullet and since there are 50caliber rifles being built in Canada that are accurate, owning a 416 would be different but if you're trying to accomplish what a 50caliber does, just with a smaller bullet, I wouldn't bother trying since the gun is going to be roughly the same size and react roughly the same way every time you pull the trigger with smaller result and damage. I'm sure with the right load development, the 416 would be an accurate round but that boils down to the builder of the gun since the cartridge and bullet aren't mis-matched.

The Verdict: Hat's off to Ronnie Barrett for answering the plead of the fine gun owners of California. In a way, makers like Tavor, Keltec, Desset Tactical, and DSR-1 have done the same for us here along with all of the 50cal manufacturers up here as well.
 
Glock-a-maniac said:
There are a lot of Barrett owners in California; enough that when 50cals were outlaw'd there, it made sense for Ronnie to come out with a new caliber so that owners could keep their guns. The answer? 416. It was excellent marketing with huge sales to be made for Barrett.

There is something to be said for a larger, heavier bullet and since there are 50caliber rifles being built in Canada that are accurate, owning a 416 would be different but if you're trying to accomplish what a 50caliber does, just with a smaller bullet, I wouldn't bother trying since the gun is going to be roughly the same size and react roughly the same way every time you pull the trigger with smaller result and damage. I'm sure with the right load development, the 416 would be an accurate round but that boils down to the builder of the gun since the cartridge and bullet aren't mis-matched.

The Verdict: Hat's off to Ronnie Barrett for answering the plead of the fine gun owners of California. In a way, makers like Tavor, Keltec, Desset Tactical, and DSR-1 have done the same for us here along with all of the 50cal manufacturers up here as well.
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there is something to be said for a larger heavier bullet, depending on its velocity??? But what about a smaller lighter bullet going much faster with a higher ballistic coefficient that is staying supersonic at further ranges and hitting with more energy.

Barrett claims there 416 has higher velocity less drop stays above the speed of sound further past the 50bmg and actually hits with more energy down range???

is this true? are we comparing apples to apples?? i hear opinions all the time but never any facts???

Does anyone actually own one of these rifles??? does any one know the fact? velocities? energy? ballistic coefficient? trajectory of the 416 compared to the 50??

Is the 416 an actuall improvement on the 50cal? does it hit with more energy and get there sooner well being less effected by wind and other factors due to the fact that it takes less time to get to the target???? or is it just simply for people who cant own a 50?? Is the 50 still the harder hitting round capably of being more accurate at further ranges due to the heavier bullet being less effected by wind????????????
 
Good point. It's going to have to be someone's personal test results because, like you say, Ronnie Barrett is doing the bragging here and if I were him, I'd be putting a positive spin on the new cartridge that's for sure even though he's still probably not comparing apples to apples. I wouldn't either if I had as much money invested in the 416 as he does.
 
dirteemax said:
there is something to be said for a larger heavier bullet, depending on its velocity??? But what about a smaller lighter bullet going much faster with a higher ballistic coefficient that is staying supersonic at further ranges and hitting with more energy.

Barrett claims there 416 has higher velocity less drop stays above the speed of sound further past the 50bmg and actually hits with more energy down range???

is this true? are we comparing apples to apples?? i hear opinions all the time but never any facts???

Does anyone actually own one of these rifles??? does any one know the fact? velocities? energy? ballistic coefficient? trajectory of the 416 compared to the 50??

Is the 416 an actuall improvement on the 50cal? does it hit with more energy and get there sooner well being less effected by wind and other factors due to the fact that it takes less time to get to the target???? or is it just simply for people who cant own a 50?? Is the 50 still the harder hitting round capably of being more accurate at further ranges due to the heavier bullet being less effected by wind????????????
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A few minutes of quality time with a decent balistics program will give the answer you seek.

Physics are physics. The 408 guys were all on about how much superior their caliber was to the 50 despite ALL the laws of physics calling BS, and the same will hold for the 416. Given his military contracts I do not see Ronnie Barret going broke repeatedly however.

For a lighter bullet to eclipse a heavier 1 in down range power and sustaining velocity further it needs to start off SUBSTANTIALLY faster.

Finding much info on the 416 is not easy.
Run your balistics program with something that data abounds on and you will quickly see just how much more velocity you need to even keep up with the heavier bullet at real long distance.
For arguments sake use 30 cal, compare a 175 gr SMK with a 210 gr SMK with a few hundred FPS difference, these bullets have TONS of intel on them, then keep upping the velocity of the 175 until you reach parody. I think you will be surprised, and will answer your own question.

As Glock states Ronnie really helped out the poor buggers in the land dictated by "the Governator", but I am surprised he is following in the Cheytac footsteps making claims that are fairly easy to debunk.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
A few minutes of quality time with a decent balistics program will give the answer you seek.

Physics are physics. The 408 guys were all on about how much superior their caliber was to the 50 despite ALL the laws of physics calling BS, and the same will hold for the 416. Given his military contracts I do not see Ronnie Barret going broke repeatedly however.

For a lighter bullet to eclipse a heavier 1 in down range power and sustaining velocity further it needs to start off SUBSTANTIALLY faster.

Finding much info on the 416 is not easy.
Run your balistics program with something that data abounds on and you will quickly see just how much more velocity you need to even keep up with the heavier bullet at real long distance.
For arguments sake use 30 cal, compare a 175 gr SMK with a 210 gr SMK with a few hundred FPS difference, these bullets have TONS of intel on them, then keep upping the velocity of the 175 until you reach parody. I think you will be surprised, and will answer your own question.

As Glock states Ronnie really helped out the poor buggers in the land dictated by "the Governator", but I am surprised he is following in the Cheytac footsteps making claims that are fairly easy to debunk.
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I am going to take my best shot with my nightforce program i bought from you. I will throw a few numbers out there and if you feel my numbers are off please let me know.

I don't think it is fair to compare the 416 loaded with 395gr CNC machined bullets to standard M33 661gr military 50bmg round at all. I would say it is more then fair to believe that most 50bmg shooters use at least a 750gr bullet???? A 750gr bullet set the two previous FCSA records and the current one is help by a bullet that is a little over 800gr??

I will do my best to compare apples to apples. There is not a lot of 416 data so if i'm going to use the data from the barrett website i think it is more then fair to use the highest velocities listed in reloading manuals for the 50bmg?????
 
dirteemax said:
I am going to take my best shot with my nightforce program i bought from you. I will throw a few numbers out there and if you feel my numbers are off please let me know.

I don't think it is fair to compare the 416 loaded with 395gr CNC machined bullets to standard M33 661gr military 50bmg round at all. I would say it is more then fair to believe that most 50bmg shooters use at least a 750gr bullet???? A 750gr bullet set the two previous FCSA records and the current one is help by a bullet that is a little over 800gr??

I will do my best to compare apples to apples. There is not a lot of 416 data so if i'm going to use the data from the barrett website i think it is more then fair to use the highest velocities listed in reloading manuals for the 50bmg?????
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With the lack of intel on the 416, your task will not be easy, which is why I made the 30 cal suggestion. That way you have solid published intel to work with. The physics will be the same either way.

I agree that serious 50 cal shooters tend to use the 750 gr Amaxs rather than ball projectiles.

FWIW my own 50 shooting the 750 gr Amaxs develops best accuracy at 2835 fps, not a hot load by any stretch, but incredibly consistant. This according to X Bal delivers 13382 Ft Lbs of energy at the muzzle
At 2000 yards the bullet is still going 1552 FPS and has 3858 ft Lbs of energy

Looking at the BC for the 419 gr Lost River bullets I have for my 408 and running at the same velocity, which is very close to what the rifle actually shoots, at 2000 yards the velocity is only 1406 and enegy is 1838.
I expect the same will hold true for the 416
 
I'm going to pick two ranges that I refer to as "a long ways" 800yrd and 1600yrd
standard conditions 100yrd zero using there proper ballistic coefficients and velocity posted by barrett
15 mile/hr crosswind

416 barrett with hornaday match 450gr 3050fps

800yrd drop 125" wind drift 39" energy 4674ft-lb
1600yrd drop751" wind drift 189" energy 2129ft-lb

416 barrett with CNC machined 395gr 3300fps

800yrd drop 104" wind drift 35" energy 4907ft-lb
1600yrd drop 626" wind drift 168" energy 2282ft-lb

50bmg with 750gr A-MAX 2800fps

800yrd drop 138" wind drift 29" energy 8100ft-lb
1600yrd drop 743" wind drift 130" energy 4778ft-lb

50bmg with 800gr barns CNC machined

800yrd drop 149" wind drift 29" energy 8063ft-lb
1600yrd drop 799" wind drift 132" energy 4833ft-lb

NOTE at 2000yrd comparing hornaday bullets the 416 and 50bmg had very similar velocities. both just above the speed of sound. depending on the ballistic coefficient the numbers could go either way and who knows how accurate the posted ballistic coefficients actually are????
 
my conclusion, the 416 shoots flatter at the shorter ranges but drops off quickly at further ranges. The 50bmg starts off slower then the 416 but at 2000yrd and past actually has less drop. The 50bmg with the heavier bullet is actually better at maintaining it's energy and momentum

no matter how i calculate things the 50bmg always has almost double the energy, at the longer ranges it's over double, back to the 50bmg being better at maintaining energy and momentum

would that be fair???

I think the 416 and 50 are similar in velocity, drop, and are probably both a lot of fun. From what i can find they cost about the same to shoot. The 416 may be a little less but there is way less options as far as brass and bullets go.

As far as i'm concerned, the 50bmg is still my preferred cartridge. If your going to go part way why not go all the way?? Though i still plan on building and testing a 416 barrett!!!!!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
With the lack of intel on the 416, your task will not be easy, which is why I made the 30 cal suggestion. That way you have solid published intel to work with. The physics will be the same either way.

I agree that serious 50 cal shooters tend to use the 750 gr Amaxs rather than ball projectiles.

FWIW my own 50 shooting the 750 gr Amaxs develops best accuracy at 2835 fps, not a hot load by any stretch, but incredibly consistant. This according to X Bal delivers 13382 Ft Lbs of energy at the muzzle
At 2000 yards the bullet is still going 1552 FPS and has 3858 ft Lbs of energy

Looking at the BC for the 419 gr Lost River bullets I have for my 408 and running at the same velocity, which is very close to what the rifle actually shoots, at 2000 yards the velocity is only 1406 and enegy is 1838.
I expect the same will hold true for the 416
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looks like you'r 419gr in your 408 is in fact
very close to the 416 barrett
 
dirteemax said:
my conclusion, the 416 shoots flatter at the shorter ranges but drops off quickly at further ranges. The 50bmg starts off slower then the 416 but at 2000yrd and past actually has less drop. The 50bmg with the heavier bullet is actually better at maintaining it's energy and momentum

no matter how i calculate things the 50bmg always has almost double the energy, at the longer ranges it's over double, back to the 50bmg being better at maintaining energy and momentum

would that be fair???

I think the 416 and 50 are similar in velocity, drop, and are probably both a lot of fun. From what i can find they cost about the same to shoot. The 416 may be a little less but there is way less options as far as brass and bullets go.

As far as i'm concerned, the 50bmg is still my preferred cartridge. If your going to go part way why not go all the way?? Though i still plan on building and testing a 416 barrett!!!!!
Click to expand...

You are spot on with your conclusions.
The 416 answers the problems of California, but nothing else really.
 
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