If you would shoot it with a bow why not a .243?

[Dogleg]

So, now we are shooting animals in the ass trying to get to the vitals?

I am sure the anti-hunting crowd would love to hear that one.

If people aren't patient enough to wait for the right shot then maybe then should stay at the range instead of relying on energy and bullet construction to grind meat for sausage in the field.

I'm reminded of Steve Earl's immortal observations about cap-n-ball Colts.

".....soon found out, it can getcha into trouble but it cain't get you out". Sooner or later, you will find yourself in a situation where energy and bullet construction are the only things that can save your ass.

 

[Boomer]

LOL....Even less common sense in these quotes...A quartering away shot is the best scenario IMO.

The quartering-away shot offers a clear path to the heart and lungs; and if it is on the right side, will travel through the liver as well. This will result in a very quick harvest of the animal. Though the aiming point at this angle is less than a broadside shot, this is still a good shot for a firearm or bow hunter.

It also has to puch through the gut and penetrate several pounds of compacted vegitation if the angle is less than ideal. The best bet is to aim for the center of the space between the animal's front legs even with a third of the way up from the body line to invision the tract of the bullet. Even under the best conditions it requires the bullet to penetrate much deeper than it would on broadside or frontal shot for equal effect. But I'm glad you agree though that a bullet should be constructed in such as way that it has a reasonable expectation of killing a game animal with this shot angle to be considered a practical choice.

 

[captonion]

Well to me, I will wait for the animal to present itself with the cleanest shot with best view of the vitals, be patient, most of the time they will move into an acceptable position.

EXACTLY
Everyone should use Kelly's quote as guidelines for hunting big game.

 

[captonion]

It also has to puch through the gut and penetrate several pounds of compacted vegitation if the angle is less than ideal.

That is a severe quartering away shot that I would not take. Too big of a margin for error on that scenario.Thats the closest you can get to a Texas heart shot, without being just that.
I have hunted 25yrs, and have never yet hit an animal in the gut (knock on wood).Why would I intentionally do just that?

 

[Boomer]

That is a severe quartering away shot that I would not take. Too big of a margin for error on that scenario.

I have hunted 25yrs, and have never yet hit an animal in the gut (knock on wood).Why would I intentionally do just that?

That's the key word isn't it. S**t happens as they say, the animal moves, a gust of wind drifts your bullet, but if the bullet has sufficient momentum and is strongly enough constucted, you still prevail. Use a bullet that is too light or too slow to produce sufficient momentum, or use a bullet that is too fragile to maintain its intergrity, then both you and the game animal are in for a long day. We both want the same result I think, I just prefer to have that extra margin to ensure it comes out that way.

 

[Boomer]

EXACTLY
Everyone should use Kelly's quote as guidelines for hunting big game.

That all fine and good when the conditions are right for it. But if you're still hunting in heavy cover, that text book broadside shot might never come. Over ther years, I've passed up many shots; sometimes because I did't like the angle, but more often because the shot I had was beyond my ability to make under those circumstances. A 250 yard shot in the open is easy, and if the game is unaware of your presence you've got all the time in the world to wait until everything is right. But most of those shots I gave up had to do with snap shots under 50 yards, where I had no shot, or a fleeting target I couldn't get on quickly enough, and target angle was never in the equation.

 

[captonion]

That's the key word isn't it. S**t happens as they say, the animal moves, a gust of wind drifts your bullet.

Then why in hell would you take the shot you just described. No mater what caliber or bullet,it goes against this very quote. You have little problem preaching the gospel, but seems you don't practice it.

 

[bearkilr]

Then why in hell would you take the shot you just described. No mater what caliber or bullet,it goes against this very quote. You have little problem preaching the gospel, but seems you don't practice it.

OK, one more time for those who stayed up too late last night;
hunt enough and you'll find out that errors happen even on a perfect broadside angle.
What he means is that when you'll need the follow up, you're SOL with an "any angle" shot from a marginal caliber.

 

[bcsteve]

Then why in hell would you take the shot you just described. No mater what caliber or bullet,it goes against this very quote. You have little problem preaching the gospel, but seems you don't practice it.

Most of us don't have Jedi power to control the animal's mind and the weather. You can have the best intention in the world and that deer might have been still as stone for the last 5 minute but what stops him from taking a step at the exact moment you pull the trigger? Or a sudden gust of wind?

Personally, when I choose a cartridge or bullet for specific hunt, I choose one that will work when everything goes wrong not one that will only work when everything is perfect.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

So, if s**t does happen, why compound the issue by taking questionable shots?

When s**t happens during a supposed "perfect" shot, imagine what can happen during a no so perfect presentation.

The animals will be there next time.

Don't archers wait for the perfect shot in heavy cover?

Maybe it is me, but it sounds like a lot of people are treating these shots as if they will never have a chance to eat again.

I made errors also when I first started hunting, and taught myself to come back another day.

 

[Dogleg]

OK, one more time for those who stayed up too late last night;
hunt enough and you'll find out that errors happen even on a perfect broadside angle.
What he means is that when you'll need the follow up, you're SOL with an "any angle" shot from a marginal caliber.

Well, at least somebody gets it.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

What will die faster? A gut shot with a .338 or a .243?

I don't doubt that you wait for good opportunities.

I think would the thread is implying is that we should take the perfect shot as much as possible and not "rely" on a chambering to make up for a questionable presentation.I'm not saying everybody does that but it is not a good implication for new or experienced hunters to take a piss poor shot hoping it will work out relying on sheer gusto from the projectile.

Most of us don't have Jedi power to control the animal's mind and the weather. You can have the best intention in the world and that deer might have been still as stone for the last 5 minute but what stops him from taking a step at the exact moment you pull the trigger? Or a sudden gust of wind?

Personally, when I choose a cartridge or bullet for specific hunt, I choose one that will work when everything goes wrong not one that will only work when everything is perfect.

 

[Gatehouse]

With adequate cartridge and bullet, the THS and extreme quartering away shots are completely ethical in that the shot will kill the animal quickly.

 

[captonion]

Personally, when I choose a cartridge or bullet for specific hunt, I choose one that will work when everything goes wrong not one that will only work when everything is perfect.

No such thing.....Alot of fellas on here with magnumitis.

Caliber+Bullet, does not trump accuracy.If you aren't sure,don't shoot no matter what you use!

 

[Aries-]

Most of us don't have Jedi power to control the animal's mind and the weather. You can have the best intention in the world and that deer might have been still as stone for the last 5 minute but what stops him from taking a step at the exact moment you pull the trigger? Or a sudden gust of wind?

Personally, when I choose a cartridge or bullet for specific hunt, I choose one that will work when everything goes wrong not one that will only work when everything is perfect.

i fail to see how 1 step or the wind is going to have the bullet hit the animal in the @ss. if the animal is at a proper angle you will hit it in the shoulder, spine miss it under it, or go through the lungs. if the animal is that far facing away from you. dont take the shot. i dont enjoy cleaning out a deer when it is a heart shot. let alone if the insides are going to be filled with stomach matter or sh*t.

personally, il wait for a full on side shot where i can hit it to the best of my abilities. (as i hunt with essentially a .45-120 (muzzle loader) with a 535 grain bullet, it would more than easily go from front to back of a deer) i wouldn't want the mess to clean up, or the lost/spoiled meat i would have to deal with havering a back-end shot.

 

[Gatehouse]

One of the nice things about end to end shots on animals is that there is not much meat loss. Certainly less than most shoulder shots.

 

[Brutus]

i fail to see how 1 step or the wind is going to have the bullet hit the animal in the @ss. if the animal is at a proper angle you will hit it in the shoulder, spine miss it under it, or go through the lungs. if the animal is that far facing away from you. dont take the shot. i dont enjoy cleaning out a deer when it is a heart shot. let alone if the insides are going to be filled with stomach matter or sh*t.

personally, il wait for a full on side shot where i can hit it to the best of my abilities. (as i hunt with essentially a .45-120 (muzzle loader) with a 535 grain bullet, it would more than easily go from front to back of a deer) i wouldn't want the mess to clean up, or the lost/spoiled meat i would have to deal with havering a back-end shot.

You see that where archery differs somewhat. A heart shot for a compond bow usually means broadside on and both lungs are also destroyed in the same event.
Heartshot=Venison backstraps fried with shallots & garlic butter tonight!

 

[Aries-]

You see that where archery differs somewhat. A heart shot for a compond bow usually means broadside on and both lungs are also destroyed in the same event.
Heartshot=Venison backstraps fried with shallots & garlic butter tonight!

aye. tis why i also have a compound bow and crossbow. haven't had a chance with ether yet. keep getting lucky in muzzle loader season.

 

[bearkilr]

What will die faster? A gut shot with a .338 or a .243?

I don't doubt that you wait for good opportunities.

I think would the thread is implying is that we should take the perfect shot as much as possible and not "rely" on a chambering to make up for a questionable presentation.I'm not saying everybody does that but it is not a good implication for new or experienced hunters to take a piss poor shot hoping it will work out relying on sheer gusto from the projectile.

You're one of the ones that stayed up too late I think.

What this thread is implying is that one should choose a caliber which has the ability to cleanly kill and/or finish off an animal from any angle. There have been moose shot with 22's. Would you choose that one? Perhaps the initial shot is one aimed at the head at 20 yards, the bullet hits a twig and you nail the moose in the jaw, he starts running. Now what? Broadside double lung with a 22? Good luck with that.

No such thing.....Alot of fellas on here with magnumitis.

Caliber+Bullet, does not trump accuracy.If you aren't sure,don't shoot no matter what you use!

What is "magnumitis"? Is everyone too frail to fire a caliber with some recoil?
Seems everyone wants a featherweight rifle in a marginal caliber with a brake.

Why not use a heavier rifle in a harder hitting caliber?

 

[Boomer]

Then why in hell would you take the shot you just described. No mater what caliber or bullet,it goes against this very quote. You have little problem preaching the gospel, but seems you don't practice it.

I give up. Aren't you the guy who said that rear quartering shots are your preference? Now the OP asked about the .243 on elk, so does a rear quartering shot on elk sound like the best choice of shots when you're packing a .243? That shot could certainly be made successfully with any number of nonmagnum cartridges, but the chances of success with a .243 are questionable given the light bullet weight and the minimal momentum of the bullet at impact.

But hey, you've had success with your choices, and it sounds as though in over 25 years of hunting, you've never needed a followup shot, never mind ever having lost an animal, so I'll just shut up and pay you the homage you deserve oh great Bwana.