If you would shoot it with a bow why not a .243?

It's okay, breathe...............

Now, go to the girls in camo thread and all will be better.;)

Think we all are getting cabin fever and need to get out to the bush(or to the road:stirthepot2:) and get hunting.

captonion said:
Sorry that is not what Boomer said.

This is what he said!!


This is the post that got me so worked up.This is a totaly absurd post.Observe that there is no mention of a follow up shot.JUST (a single shot from any direction or angle ) Then he goes on to contradict himself post after post.

For the record.
I never said I would recomend a 243 for elk or moose.Never mentioned any caliber for that matter. Just got fired up over the '' killing a big game animal with a single shot from any direction or angle '' Thats it!
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RoscoeT said:
Given that my .243 will consistently make golf ball sized exit wounds in deer how is that worse than using a bow?

If you would shoot an elk with a bow, how is the .243 lighter than a bow?

Anyone see any failing to that logic?

QUOTE]

I see your point, and I think its valid. I dont bow hunt, but have watched many shows on the hunting channel, where guys hunt with bows. Often they are tracking the deer well after dark, and sometimes they even wait for the next morning to return to track down the deer. I've seen it where the deer is directly below the tree stand and the guy makes " a perfect shot" and the deer buggers off, not to be found till the next day. I'm not sold on bow hunting, although I know there are many successful bow hunters out there.. its not for me.
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Whether or not a hunter chooses to use a rear raking shot for his initial shot on game is a choice he must make for himself. But, it is prudent that his bullet's mass, velocity at impact, and it's design, and construction, are sufficient so that bullet will reach the vitals of the animal from an angle other than broadside should such a shot become necessary on follow up. When someone builds a 135 or 140 gr 6mm game bullet, only then will 6mm cartridges be suitable for use on the large species of North American big game. Such a bullet launched at 2500 fps would be more than adequate for most North American game.

The mantra that the correct choice of cartridge should have a reasonable expectation of killing the game animal with a single shot from any direction or angle within the range limitations of the cartridge and hunter cannot be reasonably argued against. You are free to make any initial shot on game that you believe is prudent given your immediate circumstances, but once you've made the decision to shoot, if that shot doesn't get it done, you are ethically bound to do whatever is necessary to bring that animal down in as short a period of time as possible. And you'll have to get it done with the cartridge and bullet you have in your rifle.

I'm not a pointy stick hunter, I'm an unrepentant gun guy and have been most of my life. But my hat's off to the guys who can take big game with a bow. An arrow tipped with an appropriate broadhead kills efficiently, and the largest game on earth has been felled quickly and humanely with arrows. Both bullets and arrows interrupt the flow of oxygenated blood from reaching the brain resulting in death, but there the similarity ends. The arrow penetrates almost without friction thanks to the razor sharp broad head. Any movement the animal makes from that point on causes the arrow to whip back and forth cutting to ribbons any tissue or viscera it encounters. Bleeding is massive and death comes quickly.

The key to how well a rifle kills is in the design of it's bullet. In the context of North American big game hunting, the use of an expanding bullet is almost universal. This bullet is designed to increase the wound volume in tissue through it's own destruction. Such a bullet's effectiveness on any particular game animal lies in the design and construction which limits it's self destruction sufficiently to enhance it's penetration. The larger the game animal, the more bullet penetration is required to produce a humane kill. But as bullets get heavier, their caliber larger, and larger still their expanded diameter, in turn limits their penetration, thus heavy for caliber bullets have historically proven the best. This is now starting to change with some of the mono-metal and premium bullets available today, which provide the external dimensions of the heavier bullet, but allow greater velocity of the lighter bullet. Still, we can generally assume that in tissue a small bore rifle bullet will produce about 12" of penetration, a mid-bore rifle perhaps 15"-24" and a medium to big bore will generally produce 30" of penetration or better. When viewed in these terms it becomes easier to determine which cartridge might be appropriate for game of any given size. The choice of the best bullet for the occasion fine tunes the choice of the cartridge. We see that in North America we could get along very well with nothing more than a .270 or .30/06, but in the shooting sports, variety is truly the spice of life.
 
captonion said:
Sorry that is not what Boomer said.

This is what he said!!


This is the post that got me so worked up.This is a totaly absurd post.Observe that there is no mention of a follow up shot.JUST (a single shot from any direction or angle ) Then he goes on to contradict himself post after post.

For the record.
I never said I would recomend a 243 for elk or moose.Never mentioned any caliber for that matter. Just got fired up over the '' killing a big game animal with a single shot from any direction or angle '' Thats it!
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The bullet/cartridge combo doesn't know whether its a follow-up shot or not, it can either do the job or it can't. If it can do it for a follow-up shot, then it could have done it in the first place. Therefore (a single shot from any direction or angle ) is a perfectly valid statement.
 
QUOTE]

I see your point, and I think its valid. I dont bow hunt, but have watched many shows on the hunting channel, where guys hunt with bows. Often they are tracking the deer well after dark, and sometimes they even wait for the next morning to return to track down the deer. I've seen it where the deer is directly below the tree stand and the guy makes " a perfect shot" and the deer buggers off, not to be found till the next day. I'm not sold on bow hunting, although I know there are many successful bow hunters out there.. its not for me.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if I could of said it this politely.:p
Gun powder and lead seems to work best.:eek:
I stick smokers and pull string guys in the same pail. :evil:
My opinion and it won't change. :D
 
Anyone else notice how bowhunters will stress the limitations of their equipment when they are implying that their skills are vast and incalculable, or their special season should be held sacred?

In the next breath the same guys will talk about the deadly efficency of their pointy stick, when defending bowhunting in general. Sometimes I think the entire human race is full of s**t.

***I used to bowhunt before I buggered my shoulder, just pointing out the irony.
 
Dogleg said:
Therefore (a single shot from any direction or angle) is a perfectly valid statement.
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So shooting an elk, or moose in the ass is a pefectly acceptable practice? Seeing you hunt Africa how about cape buffalo? I'm talking initial shot, as did Boomer!
 
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Dogleg said:
Anyone else notice how bowhunters will stress the limitations of their equipment when they are implying that their skills are vast and incalculable, or their special season should be held sacred?

In the next breath the same guys will talk about the deadly efficency of their pointy stick, when defending bowhunting in general. Sometimes I think the entire human race is full of s**t.

***I used to bowhunt before I buggered my shoulder, just pointing out the irony.
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I have some of the same sentiments so I'll wade in a little:). A buddy in AB got me started in archery and later as a reward for staying off smokes for a year, I picked up a Hoyt Ultra-tec and all the trimmings for 'punching paper'. When I retired, my retirement gift from the Co. was a Hoyt Cyber-tec and trimmings, for hunting and 3D. To add to your irony, I tore up my right rotator but didn't go under the knife. Somehow, fairly regular 'exercise' with the compound bows seems to help more than it hurts.

With my limited experience, especially in the field, I've limited myself to what I understand to be the ideal shot and cardinal rule for archery on game. That being a shot that will punch both lungs. With the ranges and trajectories involved being adequately addressed, I want to be sure, to a reasonable degree, that I can hit both lungs. Shots taken in three seasons, :redface: "O". I've been close to 'go' on a couple of occasions but not where I could be really sure.

I enjoy archery but for me, my choice on game is something of an 'acceptable size' that goes BANG. With that, and because of the bone breaking ability in addition to tissue damage inflicted, I'm willing and confident in taking a wider variety of shot angles. About the only one I'm not willing to take with a rifle is a Texas heart shot, unless the animal is heading up a steep hill and I have reasonable confidence I can hit the back bone.

And special seasons, I'm not really in favour of that 'consideration', for any choice of hunting tool.
 
captonion said:
So shooting an elk, or moose in the ass is a pefectly acceptable practice? Seeing you hunt Africa how about cape buffalo? I'm talking initial shot!
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Saeed, owner of Accuratereloading.com, who has shot at least a hundred buffalo, maybe hundreds...




Posted 18 February 2005 16:51 Hide Post
Terry,

Very sound advice.

I have been fortunate in having hunted with PHs who have never been pushy about any shot.

But, as you well know, sometimes circumstances dictate what one does in the bush. And a PH worth his salts will never rip his client for taking a wrong shot.

Of course, the above does not hold true between friends, as I hardly ever remember Roy saying "good shot" anytime I have killed an animal.

I normally get one of the following "too high! Too low! Too far back! Too far forward!"

Walter, of course, always gets "well done. Very good shot" even if he shoots an animals in the bloody guts!

One day I might write a book about my adventures with Walter and Roy.

Trouble is, no one would believe it!

One day we were following a buffalo bull, and all we cold see of him is his rear end disappearing into the bush.

Roy said "why don't shoot him in the arse?"

Next time we saw the bull, I did just that, as you can see from this photo


buft.jpg


he bull staggered and dropped. We got closer and put a finishing shot into him.

Roy said "that is NOT the right place to shoot a buffalo!"

On another occasion, I shot an impala at what we later measured to be around 420 odd yards. He was facing away from us. The bullet hit him in one of his rear legs, penetrated the whole length of his body, and came out at the junction of the neck and shoulder.

Roy said "you hit him too far back!"

I suppose if there is any advice I might add to what you have said is to have fun. No matter what happens. Smiler
 
^^^^^^^It must be perfectly acceptable then^^^^^^^^^^^

That being said I still wouldn't chance it. Seen far to many deer with a messed up ham, from a bad rear facing shot..Each to their own i guess. Over and out!
 
captonion said:
So shooting an elk, or moose in the ass is a pefectly acceptable practice? Seeing you hunt Africa how about cape buffalo? I'm talking initial shot, as did Boomer!
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Originally Posted by Boomer
To me a general purpose big game rifle should have a reasonable expectation of killing a big game animal with a single shot from any direction or angle within the range limitations of the hunter and/or his rifle.
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I read that differently than you do. If the bullet can do it, it can do it. I see now reference to intial shot.

Seeing you hunt Africa how about cape buffalo?
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At the moment, I'm sitting at 20 buffalo on 3 continents with zero crippled losses. Please carry on.:p
 
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Dogleg said:
At the moment, I'm sitting at 20 buffalo on 3 continents with zero crippled losses. Please carry on.:p
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Super hero!!!!!!!

Dogleg said:
I read that differently than you do. If the bullet can do it, it can do it. I see now reference to intial shot.
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You read it wrong then....A SINGLE SHOT.....Meaning ONE...1. No mention of follow up shot...NONE..How else could it be taken?
 
captonion said:
^^^^^^^It must be perfectly acceptable then^^^^^^^^^^^

That being said I still wouldn't chance it. Seen far to many deer with a messed up ham, from a bad rear facing shot..Each to their own i guess. Over and out!
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As I said before, if you lack the skills or the tools to do a THS on an animal, then dont' do it.
 
You read it wrong then....A SINGLE SHOT.....Meaning ONE...1. No mention of follow up shot...NONE..How else could it be taken?
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I take that as the general purpose rifle should be able to penetrate and kill the animal from any angle should the need arise. If it can't do that on the first shot, it can't do it on the last shot either. If it can do it on the last shot, it would have on the first shot. Either way the capability is there.
 
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Have you gone after and dangerous game with bow, not in N.Amerca?Just curious if folks are doing it or if you have seen hunters do it.

Dogleg said:
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I take that as the general purpose rifle should be able to penetrate and kill the animal from any angle should the need arise. If it can't do that on the first shot, it can't do it on the last shot either. If it can do it on the last shot, it would have on the first shot. Either way the capability is there.
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