Bushmaster vs Colt

givemeliberty

givemeliberty

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Of their M4 clones, which is closer to milspec? I know the military uses Colt, but is it not true that the civilian versions that Colt makes are different that the Military issue rifles? (besides not having full-auto I mean)
 
Colt used to make their rifles with larger trigger pins, I do believe that these days they come with the "mil spec" sized pins (God I hate that term). A lot of their rifles are even shipping with FA bolt groups.

A Colt 6921 is as close to a real deal M4 as you're ever going to get, even with the older oversized pins. Having said all that, good luck finding one in Canada.
 
AR-Tier-Feature-Chart.jpg


It may be out of date, but there haven't been many changed overall that would impact the way you view this chart.

This is a more up to date version but companies are starting to refuse response: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html

"Explanation of Desirable Features in Commercial M4 Pattern Carbines":
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

The general concensus seeing as there is no super uptodate chart:

Since there is no chart available (currently). Here is a brief run down for folks:

DPMS, Armalite, RRA, BM, OLY = PASS

Stag, S&W, CD, CMMG = Ok (with some minor upgrades to improve reliability)

Colt, Noveske, LMT, BCM, DD, KAC = Best
Click to expand...
 
I liked Kevin Bs comment on proof testing bolts and barrels for the M110 in that all it seems to do is reduce component life in order to meet an old requirement.
 
I won't follow that chart blindly - some of those stuff are superficial ( like F marked FSB....any monkey can mark "F" on a FSB to pass the test. If they want to test anything, test the actual height of the FSB! Or the extract spring insert, color does not make jack at all. It is the spec.) The quality of the contruction is more important than the check mark - for example, did anyone test the hardness of the pins and fire control parts used???

I would rather have straight pins and roll pins, instead of taper pins that are made of pot metal.

And properly staked Bolt carrier - the military only specified the allowable height of metal dsiplacement by the staking.

And did anyone check the hardness of the anodization - I can tell you that some are better than the other....
 
Very true...I talked with the originator of "the chart" a year or two ago about this, and he was 100% aware of the limitations of what amounts to a "features checklist".

For example you could have a Colt with a 180 degree bend in the barrel and all the right checkmarks would still be there...I'd rather shoot a DPMS with a straight barrel in that situation, though.

I recall the list grew out of his attempt to quantify the reasons why buying a Colt, say, is ACTUALLY worthwhile. It was mainly aimed at the people out there who think their DPMS is "just as good" as a Noveske, because it's the same basic shape and some moron in a gun store probably told them that they're all made from the same parts anyway.

It was not really intended to be a be-all end-all ranking system. It's also somewhat out of date. A new version is in the works but was not ready yet last time I looked into things (about a month ago).

Things like the F-stamp are a result of the habit of some makers assembling carbines from mismatched rifle parts they buy from companies contracted to build gas blocks or whatever. When Bushmaster bought FSBs, they would buy, say, 5000 units that Colt rejected. But they may have been intended for Colt RIFLES, not carbines in the first place. Bushmaster, not caring, would take the non-F-stamped towers and chuck them on barrels for carbines.

So the F-stamp is really only significant to companies which are all drawing on the same pool of parts manufacturers. But to my knowledge it is the standard method of carbine-height FSB marking, so an F-stamped block should - in theory at least - be the right height.

The goal, obviously, is not just to have an F-stamp, it's to have the right height block...but these two features are highly correlated, particularly in the US market, which the chart is aimed at.
 
^^^Thanks for that, I didn't know the new chart had come out. It's interesting to see SPIKES features are supposedly comparable with BCM. M4Carbine.com members love to bag on spikes. It's also interesting to note that this "list" was filled out by the manufacturers themselves, which takes us back to Greentips' point.
 
You can test the crap out of your barrel or bolts - but if they are crap to start with, they are still crap even if they are tested. They are just crap that pasted the test, but there is no guarantee it won't crap out the first round downrange after the HPT.

The history, reputation, skill, QC, ethics and other management functions such as material procurement ( all the ISO stuff) are way more important. A guy of any company can claim to use such and such steel, but you are counting on his integrity. Show me the paperwork trail that you have documented what you have purchased and the procedure that you follow to ensure consistency and quality of the materials coming through the door.

What is your practise of using contractors, what do you do to ensure your contractor deliver to your spec? What kind of spec do you give to your contractors ??

The chart is not completely useless, but its only 25% of the picture.
 
Interesting how alot of the garbage guns are 1:9s

People also get all caught up in specifications like Mil spec. All it means is it meets a certain standard, whether that standard is worthwhile or even hard to meet is up to an educated end user to determine. Often its a safe bench mark, but not always.
 
Some interesting comments in here.

I actually have a 1:9 twist 5.56mm marked Colt barrel on a Colt flat top, so Colt couldn't have thought that poorly of 1:9. I suspect the reason Colt prefers selling 1:7 is just an economy of scale issue.

Also, I've had four (4) different Colt LE6920 rifles pass through my gun safe and not one had a full auto BCG (one even had the infamous D stamp on the upper). Honestly, I've yet to see a Canadian owned LE6920 that does have an M16 carrier (I'd love to be shown up here just to actually see a FA carrier in a Canadian LE6920).
 
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