B.c. Provincials

Ontario has slowly accepted and become comfortable with the growth and popularity of F Class. this year half the non-cadet entries were F Class. the proportion of finalists in the Lt. gov's final was split in proportion to entries. At one time FClass only got 6 places.

I think ORA has seen their future.

F Class started chairing off the winner a number of years ago. Here is Ken Proulx getting his ride off the range.

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For information purposes:

At the BCRA AGM meeting that was held in early Nov 2010, chairing of Lt. Gov's winners at the provincials was discussed and a vote was held. The outcome was that TR would be chaired as per tradition and that F-Class would develop their own tradition of parading their winners but that all winners would form one procession. We are still in the process of looking at possible options for parading but keeping in mind it needs to be relatively simple. We are also working on sashes to be worn by each of the F-Class winners duing the parade. The names of the 2011 winners will be added to the sashes. For those who attended this year, you may have noted a number of revisions to the program i.e. some additional prizes and now including; Lt. Gov.'s Prize Winner for both F-Class (Open) and F-Class (FTR), a new trophy for the Lt. Gov's FTR Champion generously donated by Don Hall and keeper plaques for the winners (F-O and FTR) of the George Farquharson match to give everyone a chance to compete for something in the last match and to commemorate the founding father of F-Class.

Please keep in mind... Rome was not built in one day.

If anyone wishes to discuss this further, please contact me directly.

respectfully, Brian Mylleville
 
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Gunsmoke said:
For information purposes:

At the BCRA AGM meeting that was held in early Nov 2010, chairing of Lt. Gov's winners at the provincials was discussed and a vote was held. The outcome was that TR would be chaired as per tradition and that F-Class would develop their own tradition of parading their winners but that all winners would form one procession. We are still in the process of looking at possible options for parading but keeping in mind it needs to be relatively simple. We are also working on sashes to be worn by each of the F-Class winners duing the parade. The names of the 2011 winners will be added to the sashes. For those who attended this year, you may have noted a number of revisions to the program i.e. some additional prizes and now including; Lt. Gov.'s Prize Winner for both F-Class (Open) and F-Class (FTR), a new trophy for the Lt. Gov's FTR Champion generously donated by Don Hall and keeper plaques for the winners (F-O and FTR) of the George Farquharson match to give everyone a chance to compete for something in the last match and to commemorate the founding father of F-Class.

Please keep in mind... Rome was not built in one day.

If anyone wishes to discuss this further, please contact me directly.

respectfully, Brian Mylleville
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Smoke and mirrors comes to mind???;)
 
Ganderite said:
Ontario has slowly accepted and become comfortable with the growth and popularity of F Class. this year half the non-cadet entries were F Class. the proportion of finalists in the Lt. gov's final was split in proportion to entries. At one time FClass only got 6 places.

I think ORA has seen their future.

F Class started chairing off the winner a number of years ago. Here is Ken Proulx getting his ride off the range.
Click to expand...

Well it looks like the ORA is doing it RIGHT and moving in a FORWARD and cohesive direction, where it seems as though the BCRA, who were doing it right by chairing the F and TR Lt Gov winners up until this year (other than F-TR until this year as well), have taken a huge step BACKWARDS now and making it even harder for the 2 disciplines to get along.

I know the BC TR shooters have always put up a fuss about the "F'ers" using the almighty "Chair" in the past few years that we have actually been "allowed" to chair our F-Class winner.

I believe there was some talk at provincials the previous 2 years that they were not going to allow us to use their chair for F-Class but in the end we got to chair our winner.

I remember discussing it in the bivouac the year I won it as there was a rumor that we weren't welcomed to use it so I said I would be happy being chaired off with a lawn chair and a couple of long 2x6's.

Did the F guys at ORA come up with their own chair or is one chair shared amongst the factions?
 
Did the F guys at ORA come up with their own chair or is one chair shared amongst the factions?
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It was the same chair used by the TR people .
Mr. Mohideen was chaired off the range then the chair was brought back for the F class . Then during the award presentation the F class chaired our winner up to accept his award . Then the TR guys did the same .
For my first provincials it was quite pleasing to not feel unwanted . :)
 
doemaster said:
It was the same chair used by the TR people .
Mr. Mohideen was chaired off the range then the chair was brought back for the F class . Then during the award presentation the F class chaired our winner up to accept his award . Then the TR guys did the same .
For my first provincials it was quite pleasing to not feel unwanted . :)
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We had been doing the same thing.
 
I guess as F grows it may develop its own traditions .
I suppose a chariot pulled by your fellow competitors may be alittle over the top . :)
 
Gunsmoke said:
The outcome was that TR would be chaired as per tradition and that F-Class would develop their own tradition of parading their winners but that all winners would form one procession.
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So if F-Class is to develop their own tradition.....why would we want to form one procession and march as a unified group when the group is clearly divided and almost any chance of cohesion out here is next to impossible?


[RANT ON]
Now I may be opening up a WHOLE new can of worms on this but here goes anyway:

TR (as far as I can see) is a dieing sport, at least out west. In the past few years I have seen MAYBE 1 or 2 new TR shooters at matches that I have attended period. Putting the separation barrier between TR and F-Class is a lose-lose situation for all.

Why has F-Class (F-TR in particular) become so popular? Because Average Joe can go to his local "Gunworld" shop and in one fell swoop buy EVERYTHING he needs to show up to a match and be somewhat competitive. He was going to buy a gun anyway, even if he doesn't like the competitive aspect, he now has a decent platform to learn on and maybe try again in the future. Or worst case scenario he sells the items and cuts his losses.

No special sights, slings, jackets, handstops, etc... required to shoot in F-TR.....Rifle, Bipod, Rear Bag, Scope and Ammo is all that is needed.

Is Average Joe going to spend a few thousand dollars on all the equipment needed to go and "try" TR to find out he doesn't like it.....highly doubtful. Since the equipment is so specialized he will be storing it in his closet forever.

Would any TR people offer up ammo and equipment for a newbie to come out and try? Some may........Let's put it this way, when I made a comment that I would LOVE to try TR a couple of years ago (after being told I should take it up), at a table with a minimum of 5 TR shooters sitting there, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON even made an offer to say "Hey, you can try mine one day".

I cannot count the number of times some guy has been at our range on an F-Class practice day, asks what it is we are doing, and by the end of the session has been offered to lay down behind one of our rifles and fire a few rounds. Just this week I let a guy I had met at the range shoot my 6BR and he shot a 5 shot 1 hole group at 100m and had a great big smile on his face after doing so.

Getting new people into the sport is a job in and of itself, free promotion is probably the best return for the least investment. Online forums (such as this) are a great tool for letting new shooters know about up coming matches, practice days, etc. If no one knows about the events, how can anyone expect to get new people out.

I know of very people out this way who utilize the available forums to recruit new shooters to come out and try it, there are a handful at best that do what they can to get people out, but some think that forums such as this are a plague.

[/RANT OFF]
 
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One question that I have is, if we as "F' Class shooters have to develop our own traditions, why do we even need the BCRA or DCRA? Why don't we have our own shoots and stop subsidizing the TR shooters in the BCRA to go to Austrialia and other places? We ("F' Class shooters) seem to be paying the bills and end up getting crapped on constantly.

Frankly, I would be happy not to have to pay a surcharge to the BCRA every time I shoot at a non-military range and have to pay an annual fee for something I don't get much value out of. I look at the BCRA membership as an insurance charge to shoot in Chilliwack but why do we have to pay an additional fee for Kamloops and Mission?

Next time in Kamloops they want to increase the match fee $20 per person for the BCRA for the ISSF Sierra Match. Why if this is the attitude from the TR side? I think I might be just passing on that match.

TR and F Class really are just two versions of the same game in that the only real difference are the sights. IE: long range target shooting and if we divide the groups we will actually diminsh the whole.

Steve
 
Steve, there are no Surcharges to the BCRA on Non-Military ranges.

The BCRA gets a portion of the match funds for Sanctioned events only. ie. Sierra Match

But I agree with everything else you said :) :cheers:

Just look at the numbers this year, Sierra match was well attended but not a sell out as it could have been, Provincials had less than stellar attendance. What does the prognosis look like for next years shoots? Time will tell I guess.
 
I seriously considered the provincials this year, but four days is just too long. Having done the BCRA Tac match just one month previously (3 days plus sight in day) I just couldn't bring myself to spend that much time motelling in Chilliwack again.

Also, the provincials might have had the same problem the Tac match had. Being on a summer long weekend would likely cause some folks to have to pay attention to other things, like staying married for instance. :)
 
Richard.

What does a "Sanctioned" match get you? Nobody has ever been able to explain to me the benefits verses the extra cost. At the Sierra match at least we get a "free" box of TR bullets.

What bothers me is that if we ("F" Class) have to develop our "own" traditions then the groups will develop in different directions apart from one another which would be a shame considering we are shooting basically the same game. I, for one, like the idea we are shooting in a sport evolved from something that started in the early 1800's.

Open sight TR shooting will be extinct reasonably soon anyways, at least in the west, given the age of the shooters and lack of new blood.

Steve
 
Gentlemen,

Please allow me to add my $0.02 ($0.0202 USD)... based on the following point of view:
I've observed and participated in the BCRA TR's on and off since 1989; call me a Life Sharpshooter as that's about as good as it gets for me. I got to shoot with Farky once and have been shooting F-TR the last couple of trips up. I am a Life Member of BCRA.

Points in this discussion made are well taken and well meant (IMHO)... I agree that the seeming disconnect between TR and F Class is harmful to the sport but the bottom line would appear to be $. Shooting organizations can only fund so many teams to Bisley, the Palma, whatever... as the diversity of shooting sports grows the ability of an organization to send participants will diminish. Each type of shooting will expect some support and then will have to come up with (from personal funds or donations) the rest. Most folks aren't at the world class level and even some that are have monetary concerns and / or a life that keeps them home (staying married is good). Also Canada, like the US, has something of a regional split in shooting it seems to me. Each region trying to get the most support by having the most high level shooters.

What I saw this year was a reduced number of shooters due to the absence of a visiting UK team. Folks will come out of the woodwork when there is a visiting team. Last year the motel I stay in was packed with shooters, this year my group appeared to be the only shooters and there were lots of empty rooms. This is unusual even for a year with no visiting team.

I've heard it said that the growth of shooting in WA and OR may have kept some from traveling... possible... I can't say one way or the other. All I know is that most of the folks that were shooting TR when I started in '89 are gone. A few moved to F Class but most are just gone... why is that? I think George had the right idea; scope and bipod and carry on.

Many of the newer shooters move directly into F Class, that, in and of itself isn't the issue really (except to the dearth of TR newbies). The issue as I see it is the loss of continuity, the loss of tradition... be it chairing the winners, the International Dinner*, the commonality of purpose and experience. Saying the F-C needs to get their own traditions is a two-edged sword... more splitting of the $, more loss of common bonds; not in the best overall interest of shooting.

Sorry if I've raised more questions than I've answered but I just needed to let you know how someone not in the mainstream of BCRA politics sees the situation. Hope this won't get my invite revoked for the future.

*The dinner was terrific this year, kudos and many thanks to the ladies that put it together for us!
 
SteveB said:
Richard.

What does a "Sanctioned" match get you? Nobody has ever been able to explain to me the benefits verses the extra cost. At the Sierra match at least we get a "free" box of TR bullets.

What bothers me is that if we ("F" Class) have to develop our "own" traditions then the groups will develop in different directions apart from one another which would be a shame considering we are shooting basically the same game. I, for one, like the idea we are shooting in a sport evolved from something that started in the early 1800's.

Open sight TR shooting will be extinct reasonably soon anyways, at least in the west, given the age of the shooters and lack of new blood.

Steve
Click to expand...

Other than the Sierra Bullets (Which Sierra provides, not the BCRA) the BCRA brings "keepsake" patches for the winners.....that is all AFAIK.

I do not know the reasoning behind the extra cost for the Kamloops Sierra shoot as I was not present at this years event.

rokkor_x said:
Gentlemen,

Please allow me to add my $0.02 ($0.0202 USD)... based on the following point of view:
I've observed and participated in the BCRA TR's on and off since 1989; call me a Life Sharpshooter as that's about as good as it gets for me. I got to shoot with Farky once and have been shooting F-TR the last couple of trips up. I am a Life Member of BCRA.

Points in this discussion made are well taken and well meant (IMHO)... I agree that the seeming disconnect between TR and F Class is harmful to the sport but the bottom line would appear to be $. Shooting organizations can only fund so many teams to Bisley, the Palma, whatever... as the diversity of shooting sports grows the ability of an organization to send participants will diminish. Each type of shooting will expect some support and then will have to come up with (from personal funds or donations) the rest. Most folks aren't at the world class level and even some that are have monetary concerns and / or a life that keeps them home (staying married is good). Also Canada, like the US, has something of a regional split in shooting it seems to me. Each region trying to get the most support by having the most high level shooters.

What I saw this year was a reduced number of shooters due to the absence of a visiting UK team. Folks will come out of the woodwork when there is a visiting team. Last year the motel I stay in was packed with shooters, this year my group appeared to be the only shooters and there were lots of empty rooms. This is unusual even for a year with no visiting team.

I've heard it said that the growth of shooting in WA and OR may have kept some from traveling... possible... I can't say one way or the other. All I know is that most of the folks that were shooting TR when I started in '89 are gone. A few moved to F Class but most are just gone... why is that? I think George had the right idea; scope and bipod and carry on.

Many of the newer shooters move directly into F Class, that, in and of itself isn't the issue really (except to the dearth of TR newbies). The issue as I see it is the loss of continuity, the loss of tradition... be it chairing the winners, the International Dinner*, the commonality of purpose and experience. Saying the F-C needs to get their own traditions is a two-edged sword... more splitting of the $, more loss of common bonds; not in the best overall interest of shooting.

Sorry if I've raised more questions than I've answered but I just needed to let you know how someone not in the mainstream of BCRA politics sees the situation. Hope this won't get my invite revoked for the future.

*The dinner was terrific this year, kudos and many thanks to the ladies that put it together for us!
Click to expand...

rokkor_x you raise some very good points and you obviously have a firm grasp on reality and the reality of our issues, unfortunately not everyone shares that same grasp within the organization and it's almost as though the majority turn a blind eye to the problem hoping it will either fix itself or go away, rather than facing it head on and trying to come up with a viable solution.

PS: Did you shoot TR last year at Vokes? Just trying to put a face to the moniker :)
 
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CyaN1de said:
Think I figured out your name but not sure if we have met formally or not. I am horrible with names. :D
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Me too, but if I've done my homework right you're Richard D. and I think you're right we've not formally met, although I shot one day with Marc last year.

With any luck I'll be back next year and we'll fix that up then and have a pint or two at the dinner. Deal?
 
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