This is the bottom line, you will be charged no matter what until laws are improved or public opinion changes enough to sway the legal system. So I figured why not use the good stuff? Might make a precident and save the next guy.
Self defense loads for 9mm
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
This is the bottom line, you will be charged no matter what until laws are improved or public opinion changes enough to sway the legal system. So I figured why not use the good stuff? Might make a precident and save the next guy.
Do you have a link to that thread?
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What self defence here in Canada?
This is not USA this is Canada and we do not live in Hollywood world!
What the heck is wrong with us now these days?
Do we fear from some invisible enemy?
For target defence I recommend anything from 115gr to 147gr.
Cheers.
What self defence here in Canada?
This is not USA this is Canada and we do not live in Hollywood world!
What the heck is wrong with us now these days?
Do we fear from some invisible enemy?
For target defence I recommend anything from 115gr to 147gr.
Cheers.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
This attitude annoys me. Just because we live in Canada does not make us immune to criminal violence or acts of evil. Just because we are Canadians, does not mean we are required to die on the alter of political correctness . . . except in Toronto. Violence can come to us anywhere at anytime.
We as Canadians are no safer than the folks who were shot in by a deranged gunman in Norway. Naturally none of those victims were armed either, which sadly tends to be a common theme in these incidents. By all accounts the gunman stood in the open and would have been a easy target, so solving that particular problem would not have been technically difficult. While being armed is no guarantee that you will not be injured or killed in a violent encounter, your chances are far better when your situation is raised from being a lowly victim to being a combatant.
If your life is threatened, it's not about the $20 in your wallet, the issue is that instead of getting home to your family, you are left bleeding and dying in some dirty alley. So what are you going to do about it? Its up to you. No one else is going to come to your aid when the action is fast and violent. And it might not be just about you; what will you do to protect your wife and children during the course of a violent assault? Have you considered that meekly complying to your attacker's demands might actually embolden him/them to a greater degree of violence, while fighting back draws attention and creates a problem for them. The less time they have to hurt you, the less severely injured you will be.
The rules of this forum preclude our advising anyone to break the law, but if the law can't or won't protect you, or worse if the interpretation of the law actually endangers you, and you believe that in your particular circumstances you need to take extraordinary measures to ensure the safety of you and yours, you'll get no argument from me. Until we get a Canadian Castle Doctrine, its the best we can do.
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Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Actually, I've read that a few times over the years in various American gun periodicals. The one that sticks out in my mind is an article where the author states that you have no idea there are 4 syllables in the word "magnum" until you hear the prosecution use it against you while describing you as some sort of firearms Angel of Death, loading super-special man killer rounds in your basement whilst salivating at the opportunity to use them on some hapless soul. I thought that was good advice at the time, and think it still is (for those able to use a firearm for defensive purposes, that is)!
Newbs be trollin'.
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec
What on earth is a "dealier than most" round? Who decides what round is more deadly than another and how exactly is that measured? How does one quantify the relative deadliness of a cartridge?
Your posting is utterly ridiculous and full of fail.
Really? Why don't you try doing some research on the subject? You obviously don't have the slightest clue about self defence or how warped the justice system is.
You sir are just another keyboard commando who gets a testosterone rush from posting on topics you have no knowledge of.
So you go ahead and load up some real hot defense loads, and if you should ever use them, you can tell us all how it feels to become "Bubba's #####".
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec
Well, it SHOULD be Gospel.
In the "land of the free" where CCW is legit in almost every state, it is common knowledge that using anything but commercially produced ammo for self defence is an invitation to a whole heap of heartache.
Speaking as a current CCW holder in the majority of the U.S. states, I have done extensive research as I am not fond of the idea of relocating to a U.S. Federal prison... handloads and self-defence are a recipe for trouble.
Wow,
Reading through this thread it has gone in several different directions but the one thing that is clear to me and completely agree with Boomers post above is that the laws are just wrong here in Canada.
I agree that the use of factory ammo is the best way to avoid giving the crown any extra ammo (no pun intended) against you, no matter how good your reloads are. Reasonable comes up in a lot of legal cases and it is reasonable that more people buy factory ammo than reload.
The fact that the gun owner that uses his firearm to protect his life in a home invasion or robbery situation and then faces charges for doing so is absurd. You would think that the crown and the jury would ask themselves the simple common sense question of "what the hell was the robber/rapist whatever doing uninvited in a strangers home in the first place?" and should the home owner or resident not have the right to protect their life and that of their family using whatever reasonable force is available / necessary?
This is where IMO the laws fail all of the law abiding citizens because I don't think it would matter much in terms of being charged if you cracked the intruders skull with a bat, rather than using a gun you would be charged I'm sure. The fact that we are talking about firearms in this case would just give the haters more to charge the intended victim with.
It is sad to think that the laws are so backwards here that people are subject to charges for the most basic acts to defend themselves. What ever happened to reasonable force?
If an intruder gets 2 bullets in the chest for breaking in a home of a gun owner that's reasonable in my eyes. If he gets 2 bullets in the head that's excessive. Just the same as a couple hits in the ribs with a baseball bat is reasonable but a couple home run swings to the head is excessive.
The people making the laws need to use more common sense (wishful thinking on my part)
Cactus
Reading through this thread it has gone in several different directions but the one thing that is clear to me and completely agree with Boomers post above is that the laws are just wrong here in Canada.
I agree that the use of factory ammo is the best way to avoid giving the crown any extra ammo (no pun intended) against you, no matter how good your reloads are. Reasonable comes up in a lot of legal cases and it is reasonable that more people buy factory ammo than reload.
The fact that the gun owner that uses his firearm to protect his life in a home invasion or robbery situation and then faces charges for doing so is absurd. You would think that the crown and the jury would ask themselves the simple common sense question of "what the hell was the robber/rapist whatever doing uninvited in a strangers home in the first place?" and should the home owner or resident not have the right to protect their life and that of their family using whatever reasonable force is available / necessary?
This is where IMO the laws fail all of the law abiding citizens because I don't think it would matter much in terms of being charged if you cracked the intruders skull with a bat, rather than using a gun you would be charged I'm sure. The fact that we are talking about firearms in this case would just give the haters more to charge the intended victim with.
It is sad to think that the laws are so backwards here that people are subject to charges for the most basic acts to defend themselves. What ever happened to reasonable force?
If an intruder gets 2 bullets in the chest for breaking in a home of a gun owner that's reasonable in my eyes. If he gets 2 bullets in the head that's excessive. Just the same as a couple hits in the ribs with a baseball bat is reasonable but a couple home run swings to the head is excessive.
The people making the laws need to use more common sense (wishful thinking on my part)
Cactus
diesel_weasel666
CGN Regular
Well, it SHOULD be Gospel.
In the "land of the free" where CCW is legit in almost every state, it is common knowledge that using anything but commercially produced ammo for self defence is an invitation to a whole heap of heartache.
Speaking as a current CCW holder in the majority of the U.S. states, I have done extensive research as I am not fond of the idea of relocating to a U.S. Federal prison... handloads and self-defence are a recipe for trouble.
Wow, glad I still have a box and a half of Black Talons for defence purposes.
Have not read all the posts on this thread.
The Hornady XTP is a good bullet, but be aware that it comes in different variations. I opened a box the other day and found that it was intended for much higher velocity than my 9mm would generate.
My guess is that they have a hi vel bullet and a stnd vel bullet. Logic says they do the same for the 357 bullets, too, for the 38Spl and 357Mag.
The Hornady XTP is a good bullet, but be aware that it comes in different variations. I opened a box the other day and found that it was intended for much higher velocity than my 9mm would generate.
My guess is that they have a hi vel bullet and a stnd vel bullet. Logic says they do the same for the 357 bullets, too, for the 38Spl and 357Mag.
troutseeker
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Prince George, BC
Use a .454 Casull withth e heaviest bullets you can find. This way there will only be one side to your story!
That might make sense out of the results I got from a box of XTP's. I tried the 158gr bullet in a 357 mag handgun and the terminal results were TERRIBLE. The bullets wouldn't open up at all in wet media. Your post makes me wonder if those particular bullets were actually meant for use in a carbine and not a handgun?
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
.45 acp hardball doesn't need to expand to be effective.
There really is no substitute for 230 grains of round nose solid bullet traveling 825 feet per second, delivered via 1911 with the aid of steady hands and a resolute mind.
There really is no substitute for 230 grains of round nose solid bullet traveling 825 feet per second, delivered via 1911 with the aid of steady hands and a resolute mind.
From a law enforcement perspective.......
If someone breaks into your home and you fear imminent death or grievous bodily harm to yourself or anyone else, you can use an amount of force necessary to stop the threat. i.e. deadly force
Hearing a noise outside and blasting away.......probably going to be in some trouble for that.
Intruder in the upstairs hallway......depends on the circumstances.
I can't speak for all law enforcement, but the majority of us aren't looking to charge innocent civilians protecting themselves from harm.
I can't imagine anyone getting charged with unsafe handling/storage of a firearm if they use it to save someone's life. However, we are in Canada and stranger things have happened.
I might be opening up a can of worms with this post, but that is not my intention.
My point is, from my experience, most police officers are not looking for any excuse to punish the average person (except traffic cops )
Stay safe out there
If someone breaks into your home and you fear imminent death or grievous bodily harm to yourself or anyone else, you can use an amount of force necessary to stop the threat. i.e. deadly force
Hearing a noise outside and blasting away.......probably going to be in some trouble for that.
Intruder in the upstairs hallway......depends on the circumstances.
I can't speak for all law enforcement, but the majority of us aren't looking to charge innocent civilians protecting themselves from harm.
I can't imagine anyone getting charged with unsafe handling/storage of a firearm if they use it to save someone's life. However, we are in Canada and stranger things have happened.
I might be opening up a can of worms with this post, but that is not my intention.
My point is, from my experience, most police officers are not looking for any excuse to punish the average person (except traffic cops
)Stay safe out there
- Location
- Federal Riding of Wascana
To be fair, all the anti-147grain articles are based on the OLD 147grain loads, when they first came out.
That Chuck Hawks report is out of date. Look at his bullet selection, they are decades out of date. No HST? No Gold Dot? OLD golden sabre rounds? No SXT or T-Series????
All the newer reports all generally favour heavier loadings nowadays. 147grain 9mm bullet design has come a LONG way. Note more updated lists that actually includes modern bullets.
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