AI rifles: worth it or not?
- Thread starter logan1080
- Start date
You should go over to the 'hide and say that, that would be very entertaining!
Haha i'm honestly curious. I've shot a TRG-42 with a S&B 5-25x56 police marksman on top of it on a few occasions. It shot very well, but no better than a premium custom. Plus the TRG is heavy and I can't see it being more reliable than a well made custom. Granted the few times I've shot it it's been under sunny skies and we were not mucking it through the mud.
What do these professionals, the other poster I quoted speaks of, do that makes these rifles a must have?
In no particular order:
- They have been adopted by military and police
- They have been used and proven in battle
- They cost a lot
- All this contributes to confidence in the system
I think there's a diminishing return when you get into the high end precision rifles. For the average shooter they'll see far better performance if the money is spent on training and ammo. For those that can shoot it doesn't really matter what you put into their hands, they'll make it work. If you got the money though and can shoot well the costs can be justified, if your skills aren't at that upper level you're paying for the LCF and the $$$ spent on the system won't translate into performance.
Rifles like the PGW or AI cost what they do because they are not only accurate (you can get a rifle just as accurate for much less), but because they are built to military specs and are accurate under extreme conditions and after the kind of abuse you may encounter in a conflict zone. Most of the price is justified in the survivability of this rifle, and its optics. Not sure where you guys shoot or hunt, but I have not had to compete in a war zone, or after dropping my rifle in a swamp... 
These are wonderful works of art and technology, but ..... you can have accurate and reliable for a lot less.
IMHO
These are wonderful works of art and technology, but ..... you can have accurate and reliable for a lot less.
IMHO
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While I agree that these rifles meet the criteria above I fail to see how that makes them better for anyone, warzone or not. I'm not advocating that the military units of the world switch to custom 700s by any means. I'm just saying I can't think of any situation where my friends TRG 42 won't do the same thing as a well built custom. Freezing cold or hot and dusty, I would trust both to work, in fact something with ultra high tolerances I would trust to fail sooner.
I'm really just thinking aloud and it really doesn't matter. Horses for courses.
No I actually agree with you, and that was my point with the list, not a single factor contributes to anything about the actual nuts and bolts of the systems. I feel the same way about Harley bikes. You're paying extra for nothing more than the name and reputation. I don't think a trained guy with an AI is any more dangerous than a trained guy with a Rem 700, or at any advantage because he's caryying a rifle 3x the cost.
M40. M24, Mk13.
M40. M24, Mk13.
You probably won't save much on a comprable custom, but if you do, send it to me.
I know of both AIs, and TRGs that have failed. I have also had my share of failures on a 700 system -- pulled the handle off the bolt for example.
If AW, or TRG came in a system that didn't weigh a tonne, I'd use it, but it doesn't, so I use a 700-based system for the weight benefit.
+1. Honestly, I would spend the price of an AI for more range time with the gear I have.
You can make a custom rifle very accurate, more accurate then a trg or AI, I won't argue that. Just look at some of the custom bench guns people are rocking, extremely accurate machines! What the AI's and trg's do is bring good accuracy in a system that is extremely durable. These systems are made to operate in extreme conditions, as the operator's life may depend on that. To make a rifle that accurate in a system that rugged is no simple task. Take a custom f-class or similar bench gun to a tactical style competition, and I bet you'll have failures. Hell, even a lot "custom" remington 700's and savages fail during these competitions. There's a video on youtube from a competition, and you should see all the 700's that fail in it. Not a single AI failed in that competition. I don't remember which specific comp it was, but it has a reputation down in the States for being a course that is really tough on guns.
Is there a markup on rifles such as the AI? Probably. Is it worth it? That's a question only you can answer. If you want an extremely accurate rifle that can shoot bug holes all day off a bench, you are better off spending money on a custom rifle. If you want a really acccurate rifle that is built like a tank, and will have a longer life expectancy than you, get a rifle like the AI.
The other consideration is the 'logistical tail'. A team equipped with TRG's or AI's can access off the shelf replacement parts whereas such a support system may be lacking with respect to custom 'one off' pieces. This is not always a major issue for recreational or hobby shooters but has to be taken into account when equipping a military force or LE team.
For professional users, the AI is a tool. A tool that has to be utterly reliable and dependable to do the job that it is required of it. Every component right down to the fasteners holding it together must be rugged and able to withstand the harshness of battlefield conditions.
It could be a matter of life or death. If your life depended on your rifle, how much would you be willing to pay for it? $1,000? $5,000? $10,000? I'm guessing any price would be a good value.
For most of us on CGN (myself included), owning an AI represents nothing more than a status symbol and an expensive range queen. The comparison between AI's and customs is a bit ridiculous because they don't share the same intended purpose.
If all we're referring to here is sporting useage and leisure time on the range, then ANY accurate rifle, custom or not, will do the job. Sink enough money into your Stevens 200 and I'm sure it'll be as accurate if not better than an AI.
If that's all that's important to you, then take a 700 SPS Varmint and add a AICS stock to it. You'll have the look of an AI (within reason) and the same stock ergonomics of an AI. You'll spend close to $1,700. Slap your weaver bases and Tasco 6x24 on it and you'll be ready to hit the range.
It could be a matter of life or death. If your life depended on your rifle, how much would you be willing to pay for it? $1,000? $5,000? $10,000? I'm guessing any price would be a good value.
For most of us on CGN (myself included), owning an AI represents nothing more than a status symbol and an expensive range queen. The comparison between AI's and customs is a bit ridiculous because they don't share the same intended purpose.
If all we're referring to here is sporting useage and leisure time on the range, then ANY accurate rifle, custom or not, will do the job. Sink enough money into your Stevens 200 and I'm sure it'll be as accurate if not better than an AI.
If that's all that's important to you, then take a 700 SPS Varmint and add a AICS stock to it. You'll have the look of an AI (within reason) and the same stock ergonomics of an AI. You'll spend close to $1,700. Slap your weaver bases and Tasco 6x24 on it and you'll be ready to hit the range.
Well look at the US Army XM2010/M24E1, expected cost to overhaul their current M24's is $7800 per rifle. Seriously $7800 per rifle?? There's no value in that, it's a Remington to boot so what does one get for $7800 apart from LCF? Oh yeah sorry a super expensive chassis. No doubt the AI is reliable, but serious 50% for what you're paying for is nothing more than brand name. Break down it's components and mass produce it and I guarantee it doesn't cost that much to make, what you're basically paying is goverment cost for a retail item.
The u.s. Army is not the best benchmark to use when judging equipment.
Yes the ai and trg are worth every penny for what they are intended to do and if you to ask why, then They are not for you. It's really that basic.
Still to answer the question, to get consistency out of a rifle at extreme temps, elevation changes and even latitude changes where gravitational forces affect ballistics differently, is no small feat. Some rifles are so much better than others at being consistent in a multitude of conditions that they are the ONLY rifles to be considered. Fwiw.
Those are factory AWP 20inchers no?
To be fair, guys like MR Damage do really well with custom 700s, also shooting GMM, and with much less rangetime, none of it paid for.
Certainly not meant to discount the achievements of said shoot with the AWP.
The savage team does well with off the shelf untouched savages, larue is doing extremely well with 16 inch ar 308's in br competitions. Many rifles are great and accurate that doesn't discount the fact that AI is still worth every dime to those who need them.
Don't be so cheap. Redneck.
