WWII flamethrowers / viewed through PC vision
- Thread starter fat tony
- Start date
Yes, it was a big secret: "I know nuffink!"
Uncle Adolf only announced it in his war speech in 1939. Probably they missed that speech and the text was never printed in the newspapers..
In what some call the "First Holocaust" the Nazis had a program to kill off the mentally ill and other "useless mouths". Among the many problems they encountered was the people involved blabbing about what they were doing. The public at large became quite vocal (for Nazi Germany) in their opposition to what was happening.
When it came time for the Jews and all the others rounded up in the selections to be murdered it was Himmler who insisted that only his SS could be trusted with the job, as only they had the discipline to keep their mouths shut. IIRC there was even an occcasion where he spoke to the SS at Auswitz, telling them among other things to be proud of what they were doing and that it was `a page of glory, never to be written in the book of history`. I may have that last quote a bit wrong but that is the gist of it.
While I don`t think you could call it a secret there was most definately an attempt to conceal what was really happening.
Most soldiers in any army would fight on even when things were going against them but being burned to death was considered a horrlble way to go, then as now. Even fanatical opponents would frequently surrender when faced with a flamethrower.
Japan's treatment of captured and wounded soldiers to say nothing of civilians made it much easier to terrible weapons against them. In World War 2 Roosevelt called them simply , the barbarians.
Japan's treatment of captured and wounded soldiers to say nothing of civilians made it much easier to terrible weapons against them. In World War 2 Roosevelt called them simply , the barbarians.
Barbarians. Hmm. How did Americans win an "empire" in the Americas and the Philippines, etc.? They did not do it by reasoning with the inhabitants. "Barbarian" in this case seems more a way to discredit the competition. No nation can be termed more humane than another when it comes to conquer. One cannot believe literally the written history of any victor.
When our soldiers fight on against all odds they are decorated and termed heroes. When the enemy soldiers fight on against all odds they are branded "fanatics" by us.
Propaganda demonizes and de-huminizes the enemy making killing one's fellow man more acceptable. How easily manipulated most people are. My mother, God rest her soul, hated the German and Japanese to her dying day. So effective was British propaganda.
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
so 6 million jews die, 20 million die in the ukraine, 50 millon die in china. we (canadians) kill off all the natives in newfoundland in less than 100 years. whats this holocaust you speak of? 6 million seems like small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. just an observation im making and nothing implied.
Details of the industrial processes to exterminate the mostly Jewish inmates of concentration camps were withheld from the general population of Germany and from the Wehrmacht, but there were too many round-ups and massacres carried out, however reluctantly, by ordinary army units in the East to allow that German soldiers had "no clue."
They killed about 100,000 in the Phillipines as I recall. The US has always been prone to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Being late to the game, they didn't exactly finesse imperialism. On the other hand, they've also done a lot of good in this world. Some countries I could name have done a lot of killing, but about nothing to balance the scale the other way.
Sorry, you're dead wrong. Of course it's much easier to take that viewpoint: you don't have actually familiarize with any historical events, you just repeat the mantra that "everyone is about the same" and go back to whatever really interests you. Great, but those who don't want to inform themselves on a subject should maybe stay out of debates about it. But of course that's just my perspective.
Sometimes, sometimes not. If you're going to tell me the 12th SS at Carpequet is the same as the Canadians at St. Julien, well, save your breath!
Maybe she saw people she knew and cared for die unnecessarily before their lives had really begun, all because certain nationalities had the idea they were destined to rule the world? There are people alive today who suffered and saw suffer and still feel that way. For you it seems, as for most people, the suffering of others a generation or two ago is devoid of moral import today. That's one reason history repeats itself. Some people in this world are human, but act like they aren't. I'd call them barbarians too, if it wasn't an insult to the barbarians.
This debate (funny, I thought this tread was about mounted flamethrowers) reminds me of how there were two versions of the Puckle gun. One with round bullets, to use against christians, and one with square bullets (believed mistakenly to cause more horrendous injuries) for use against the Turks, who apparently deserved such barbarism.
Flame throwers actually date back to ancient times when the Greeks developed so-called "Greek Fire" flame projectors and mounted them on ships to destroy enemy fleets and dominate the Mediterranean. There was a program about this on The History Channel some time ago where a fellow actually succeeded in replicating Greek Fire.
In medieval times flame was another weapon in the form of heated oil being poured down on besiegers from the castle walls.
In medieval times flame was another weapon in the form of heated oil being poured down on besiegers from the castle walls.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I would actually like to see how they made the chambers for the square barrel puckle gun - broaching? I guess they really did not understand the concept of stress risers and sharp internal corners back then?
I guess they really did not understand the concept of stress risers and sharp internal corners back then? I would actually like to see how they made the chambers for the square barrel puckle gun - broaching?
The amazing thing to me, is that the puckle gun, was the only gun of it's type for basically 150 years. The gatling gun and the maxim, the worlds first "modern" machine gun are not seperated by a huge time period ; 23 years. 150 years to go from the puckle to the gatling, 75 years to go from the gatling to jets and the atomic bomb. That's a long time without developing a new idea on the subject. 150 years!
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There is a clip on yt of a fellow who made a miniature, and fired it, it did not seem like it was high firepower, although it was baby steps in a time when there were few other options.
[youtube]8nTqV7o2jE8[/youtube]
I don't know why the sound of the firing seems like it's dubbed in. . .
[youtube]8nTqV7o2jE8[/youtube]
I don't know why the sound of the firing seems like it's dubbed in. . .
There were revolver muskets and pepperpots for ages.
The Puckle reminds me of the Ampulomet a little, to get back on topic with flamethrowing:
Amaziah Rimfire
Member
I would actually like to see how they made the chambers for the square barrel puckle gun - broaching?
No. Apart from gun barrels, having to design pressure vessels that don't explode is a relatively recent thing - in the early days of steam engines, boilers used to blow up regularly! When London England started getting gas lighting around 1815, the gas pipes were made by welding old musket barrels end to end.
There is NO COMPARISON in the conduct of Imperial Japanese troops and Allied troops in World War 2. When Hong Kong fell and Canadian troops were overrun the Japanese bayonetted Canadian wounded in the hospitals. Ever heard of the rape of Nanking? Read some history and tell me all combatants conducted themselves in a similar manner. Revisionist history is truly sickening and atrocities committed by the Japanese have been well documented by many countries. Manipulation doesn't enter into it. Why do you think the Japanese are despised in China, Burma, Korea, the Phillipines and many other Asian nations to this day, it's because of WHAT THEY DID.
- Location
- Victoria, BC, Canada
Anyone watched 'The Pacific?' There's a scene in one of the episodes where a sergeant reads a japanese newspaper clipping out, propaganda describing the marines as 'blood thirsty barbarians.'
The Japanese soldiers (to my understanding) were brutal to allied combatants because they had been told that they (the allies) were less than human by their own governments propaganda. Some allied soldiers gained a hatred of the japanese because of propaganda (and facts) spread by their government. Not to say that we conducted ourselves in a manner anywhere near as atrocious, but when traced back it seems to be the fault of the generals and government in regards to troop conduct. What if the japanese had portrayed american soldiers as being just like the Japanese? It doesn't help when the soldiers are uneducated, that just makes them even more susceptible to brainwashing. Look at regular people on the fence about gun ownership, they just believe what the media (modern propaganda) tells them.
(DISCLAIMER: this is just my opinion, I in no way make excuses for the barbaric treatment of prisoners, combatants, and civilians at the hands of the Japanese)
And that tank scares the s**t out of me.
The Japanese soldiers (to my understanding) were brutal to allied combatants because they had been told that they (the allies) were less than human by their own governments propaganda. Some allied soldiers gained a hatred of the japanese because of propaganda (and facts) spread by their government. Not to say that we conducted ourselves in a manner anywhere near as atrocious, but when traced back it seems to be the fault of the generals and government in regards to troop conduct. What if the japanese had portrayed american soldiers as being just like the Japanese? It doesn't help when the soldiers are uneducated, that just makes them even more susceptible to brainwashing. Look at regular people on the fence about gun ownership, they just believe what the media (modern propaganda) tells them.
(DISCLAIMER: this is just my opinion, I in no way make excuses for the barbaric treatment of prisoners, combatants, and civilians at the hands of the Japanese)
And that tank scares the s**t out of me.
Every side will seek to de-personalize/demonize the enemy in war as it gets your own troops motivated and helps to overcome their inhibitions about killing. Once in action troops are too pre-occupied with their own survival and the basics of existence to spend much time on intellectual exercises over the moral fine points. Troops in combat respond mostly on the basis of their training and learned survival skills. These trump everything else.
I once seved with a very fine NCO who had been a prisoner of the Japanese after surviving Hong Kong. He did slave labour in the shipyards and coal mines in Japan for nearly 4 years and didn't have anything good to say about the Japanese to the point of refusing to buy anything made in Japan.
I had the experience of visiting the Commonwealth War Cemetary at Kanchanaburi, Thailand where 7000 allied POWs, who slaved to build the so-called "Death Railway"/Bridge on the River Kwai, are buried. There are many other MIAs who were killed by the Japanese in this undertaking.
To their credit post-war Japan has maintained a self-defence/ anti-military posture which is embedded in their constitution. Ironically, they replaced our Peacekeeping Contingent on the Golan Heights. I met and briefed the Japanese ambassador to the UN in Damascus some 6 years before they assumed this committment. It was a major change and not an easy decision for them.
I once seved with a very fine NCO who had been a prisoner of the Japanese after surviving Hong Kong. He did slave labour in the shipyards and coal mines in Japan for nearly 4 years and didn't have anything good to say about the Japanese to the point of refusing to buy anything made in Japan.
I had the experience of visiting the Commonwealth War Cemetary at Kanchanaburi, Thailand where 7000 allied POWs, who slaved to build the so-called "Death Railway"/Bridge on the River Kwai, are buried. There are many other MIAs who were killed by the Japanese in this undertaking.
To their credit post-war Japan has maintained a self-defence/ anti-military posture which is embedded in their constitution. Ironically, they replaced our Peacekeeping Contingent on the Golan Heights. I met and briefed the Japanese ambassador to the UN in Damascus some 6 years before they assumed this committment. It was a major change and not an easy decision for them.
Only recently have the Japanese acknowledged the horrors they perpetrated on the Asian continent in the 1930's and 40's. Folks have long memories though and old animosities die hard. Following the recent tsunami which struck Japan and the ensuing devastation I was surprised to read online comments from Chinese nationals more or less saying, "Good, they deserve it."
