Notice to S&W M&P 15-22 Rifle Owners

JimV said:
The actual financial aspect of this issue is fairly trivial, but it's a good one to fight on principle.
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I agree with that, but I think they are all good ones to fight on principle. It was wrong for you to not get your mags back, that is unacceptable.

Don't think that I am for the RCMP interpretation or that I think this is right, nothing could be further from the truth. But I did disagree that compensation is required before you explained that you lost your mags. If they will not allow you to alter the originals to meet the law, then you should be given replacement mags that are legal or compensated for the loss.

Mark
 
mmattockx said:
I agree with that, but I think they are all good ones to fight on principle. It was wrong for you to not get your mags back, that is unacceptable.
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Yes, there are many good issues to challenge, but this one is particularly juicy. There is no way that the government can deny compensation based on fairness (particularly in light of the T97 precedent.) It makes them squirm, and puts them on notice that we're watching them. This is exactly what we want to do. And it just may make them pause and reflect the next time the RCMP hands over a classification ruling for signature.

mmattockx said:
Don't think that I am for the RCMP interpretation or that I think this is right, nothing could be further from the truth. But I did disagree that compensation is required before you explained that you lost your mags. If they will not allow you to alter the originals to meet the law, then you should be given replacement mags that are legal or compensated for the loss.
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The compensation argument applies even if an owner still has their magazines. Many posters here could easily pin their mags (though it saddens me to see so many willing to submit without a whimper.) But a lot of owners couldn't. My wife wouldn't have the vaguest notion of how to modify a magazine. Young and elderly shooters may not be able to do it. People without technical skills or tools or a good knowledge of the CCC regulations would be very reluctant to try. They would have to pay someone else to do it, hence the compensation issue applies.

The DIY approach also highlights another inconsistency in the law. You can't shorten the barrels on some guns even if they would still be within the legal length requirement. Why then, is it OK to modify your magazines in the basement? The government doesn't have a leg to stand on and they will give in if enough people make a fuss. (And where are the gun orgs on this one? Invisible, as usual.)

FYI, I don't have a satisfactory answer from Toews yet, but I have gotten some action from a nearby CPC MP and the local CPC candidate. They are both concerned about losing a long time CPC supporter. Multiply that by a thousand and even Toews might wake up and do something. Gun owners have to fight for every inch of ground, otherwise the day will come when all we're allowed to shoot is BB guns (if that - looks like they're well on their way to abolition in Scotland.)
 
I just got yet another letter back from Vic Toews about this and I'm incensed. There is no regard on his part whatsoever for lawful gun owners who were literally criminalized in this case. Not even mentioning the fact that the CFC has deigned it too much work to notify any of us of the reclassification of not just these magazines, but us. The fact that all he does is regurgitate the CFC/RCMP refrain of "It is a restricted firearm, because it is an AR-15 variant and the pistol makes it 10 rds...." BS.

For all intents and purposes, the system is acting like it's working just fine and we need to stand up and say it is far from acceptable.
 
Hokus Grey said:
I just got yet another letter back from Vic Toews about this and I'm incensed. There is no regard on his part whatsoever for lawful gun owners who were literally criminalized in this case. Not even mentioning the fact that the CFC has deigned it too much work to notify any of us of the reclassification of not just these magazines, but us. The fact that all he does is regurgitate the CFC/RCMP refrain of "It is a restricted firearm, because it is an AR-15 variant and the pistol makes it 10 rds...." BS.

For all intents and purposes, the system is acting like it's working just fine and we need to stand up and say it is far from acceptable.
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Sounds like the boiler plate he sent me. I puzzled over it for a while since it didn't even mention my two issues: compensation and notification. Finally I realized it was a reply to a letter I sent one year ago to the PM, who forwarded it to Toews.

I suspect Toews has an office staff who are even bigger dunce caps than he is. After getting several follow up enquiries from me they probably rummaged around in the files, found an old letter that seemed like it might be on topic and sent it to the RCMP to draft a reply. There, job well done.

Don't let it rest. My last followup was an email to Toews, cc'ed to a local MP and the local Conservative candidate. I informed the minister that until this issue was resolved I would not be making any further contributions to the CPC or working on the local campaigns. This drew an immediate response from the candidate. I also have reason to believe that the MP contacted Toews' office. Elections are a good time to bring these matters forward.
 
that guy said:
This could be an opportunity to use the ultra useful registry to inform all the registered owners of the firearm that they could be in violation of mag capacities, but i bet that would cost too much.
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This is part of the CFCs mandate. If they can't inform owners of these firearms, it shows the system is flawed and useless.

Ofcourse we know this.
 
JimV said:
FYI, I don't have a satisfactory answer from Toews yet, but I have gotten some action from a nearby CPC MP and the local CPC candidate.
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Hokus Grey said:
I just got yet another letter back from Vic Toews about this and I'm incensed.
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My understanding of Toews is that he is against black rifles in all forms and is no friend of nor sympathetic to gun owners at all.

Mark
 
what is the solution?

so, can the 25rnd mags be sent back for exchange or be pinned to 10rnds? Can someone post a pic of a magazine that has been legally modified from 10 to 25rnds.

thanks,
 
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billymc said:
so, can the 25rnd mags be sent back for exchange or be pinned to 10rnds? Can someone post a pic of a magazine that has been legally modified from 10 to 25rnds.

thanks,
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Sent back to who? S&W is not responsible for a weird, retroactive Canadian firearms law interpretation. One of their local dealers might, in the interest of customer relations, exchange or modify them.

Of course, you are in a kind of legal limbo even trying to exchange them. The mere possession of one is a criminal offence. All the while you're transporting it somewhere you continue to be in violation of the law. Not likely to have consequences, but if you still have the mag in your possession you could be charged.

Pinned ones look just the same as unpinned. I've got a couple of 10/25s. Actually I don't recommend these. The spring is very stiff and they're hard to load. (The ones I have don't have a follower button either.) A better choice is the 10 rnd models made by S&W. You can order those directly from the States if a local dealer doesn't have them.
 
billymc said:
so, can the 25rnd mags be sent back for exchange or be pinned to 10rnds? Can someone post a pic of a magazine that has been legally modified from 10 to 25rnds.

thanks,
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Return for exchange? Well that's up to the store policy from where you purchased your gun. When did you purchase your 15-22?

As far as pics of pinned mags, go through this thread from the beginning- you'll find a couple of members' post.




:cheers:
 
billymc said:
so, can the 25rnd mags be sent back for exchange or be pinned to 10rnds? Can someone post a pic of a magazine that has been legally modified from 10 to 25rnds.

thanks,
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Pics and instructions here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=592615

You can also do like nexqunyx and buy the restrictor and glue on the base plate.

Third option is North Sylva has offered to pin these mags at a cost of $3 a mag plus return shipping, http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=600222
 
I just received a registered letter from the Canadian Firearms Registry in Ottawa (and cc'ed the CFO of Quebec) that the 25-shot magazine of my M&P 15-22 that was registered to me back in February 2011 is a prohibited device! :mad:

It states that:

"In order to comply with the requirements of the Regulations, the following options are available to you:

1. Alter or re-manufacture the 25-shot magazine to a 10-shot magazine. The Canadian Firearms Program has been advised that North Sylva Co. (at 1-800-354-8137), the importer of the Smith & Wesson rifle, model M&P 15-22, semi-automatic, 25 shots, will perform this service free of charge. However, you would be responsible for shipping costs.

2. Exchange the 25-shot magazine for a 10-shot magazine at a business that is licensed to possess and acquire prohibited devices.

3. Surrender the 25-shot magazine to the police for disposal. :D :rolleyes: :onCrack:

I have 40 days from the date of the letter to advise the CFP of the option that I utilized to comply with the requirements of the Regulation. Should I fail to notify the CFP, as requested, the matter will be referred to my local law enforcement agency.

:mad:
 
I live in Ontario and just got the letter. When I call and tell them what I plan to do. I am also going to tell them what a huge pile of BS this is and that they should pay for the work.
 
coolhand said:
I live in Ontario and just got the letter. When I call and tell them what I plan to do. I am also going to tell them what a huge pile of BS this is and that they should pay for the work.
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Good luck with that. My experience is described above in several posts, so I won't repeat it here. However, I did have a long, tiresome and ultimately fruitless correspondence with Vic Toews. In the end he casually dismissed my claim for compensation and suggested that I seek replacements from S&W or the dealer.

In my final reply I pointed out that it was outrageous to expect manufacturers or dealers to assume financial responsibility for his decisions. I advised him that I would recover my costs by canceling my monthly contribution to the Conservative Party. Which I did.

Not a good outcome for all concerned, but when dealing with an idiot like Toews there are very few options.

I am also of the view that the deafening silence of all the gun orgs on this issue and the generally servile and submissive attitudes of most gun owners greatly assists the RCMP in dicking us around like this.
 
Glad I have four black dog 50 round drum mags. Totally legal and baby seals can sleep safe again......
What a crock of sh*t.
 
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