- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
The image I had on here that seemed to be working crapped out.
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The 270 Winchester and old myths.
- Thread starter Why not?
- Start date
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
Okay, now I think it might work.
First off, let me say that I do like the 270. I own 3. But to say that it is somehow SOOOO superior to the .280 or the 30-06 is just more than a little retarded.
Here's an Excel plot of the trajectories of my hunting rifles I'll use this year, and the actual loads they're sighted in for. There is very little difference between any of them, really. The muzzle velocities are ones that I have chronographed [though not seen on the plot they are used in the calculation to draw the curve], and the top of the arc isn't allowed to go more than 3" above the line of sight. Basically, I didn't just zero on 200 yards, or even 250. Each load and it's corresponding curve is optimized for its maximum reach.
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At 300 yards the curves are all within 4 inches of each other. Sure the energies are different, but I assure you, they all will have enough energy to kill a moose or elk at 300 yards. Even down to the 6.5-06. So many cartridges do basically the same thing.
So, the it seems the biggest myth to debunk about the 270 is that it is somehow magical.
It isn't.
First off, let me say that I do like the 270. I own 3. But to say that it is somehow SOOOO superior to the .280 or the 30-06 is just more than a little retarded.
Here's an Excel plot of the trajectories of my hunting rifles I'll use this year, and the actual loads they're sighted in for. There is very little difference between any of them, really. The muzzle velocities are ones that I have chronographed [though not seen on the plot they are used in the calculation to draw the curve], and the top of the arc isn't allowed to go more than 3" above the line of sight. Basically, I didn't just zero on 200 yards, or even 250. Each load and it's corresponding curve is optimized for its maximum reach.
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At 300 yards the curves are all within 4 inches of each other. Sure the energies are different, but I assure you, they all will have enough energy to kill a moose or elk at 300 yards. Even down to the 6.5-06. So many cartridges do basically the same thing.
So, the it seems the biggest myth to debunk about the 270 is that it is somehow magical.
It isn't.
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
Okay, so I did some comparing with 150 gr bullets in 270. I used the BC of the Nosler Ballistic Tip for no particular reason, and I used a starting velocity of 2850 fps. Here's how it compares to the rest. It is just a fraction of a hair flatter than the 30-06 with the 165 NAB. Really, the two are too close to say anything about.
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- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
So what's the point of all this data?
Well,
The .270 with 130 SGK is at the bottom of the energy chart, and at the middle of the ballstic curve chart. But, still plenty for a deer.
The .270 with the 150 gr NBT is at the middle of the energy chart, and at the bottom of the ballistic chart. But still plenty for moose or elk.
There's hardly anything to tell between the 270, the 280, the 30-06, and even the 6.5-06. Depending upon the bullet used, really any one of these can be made to pretty much equal the performance of the other.
So, there's the 270 fully revealed. It's great. Just like all the others.
Well,
The .270 with 130 SGK is at the bottom of the energy chart, and at the middle of the ballstic curve chart. But, still plenty for a deer.
The .270 with the 150 gr NBT is at the middle of the energy chart, and at the bottom of the ballistic chart. But still plenty for moose or elk.
There's hardly anything to tell between the 270, the 280, the 30-06, and even the 6.5-06. Depending upon the bullet used, really any one of these can be made to pretty much equal the performance of the other.
So, there's the 270 fully revealed. It's great. Just like all the others.
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Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
True enough
. None the less, thanks for all the effort and info posting and sharing. Much appreciated. As a recent new comer to the world of the 270, I've enjoyed your comparison info.I've mentioned it previously but never having had a 270, I thought it was a caliber void I 'should' fill and picked up my first, a model 3000 Husqvarna, from Ted, Why not? on this site.
Then, a friend was getting rid of his Sako 'Mannlicker' in 270 as he's no longer able to use it and I weakened and picked that up as well.
Never had anything in that caliber in all my hunting & shooting years to date,
now I have two.Okay, so I did some comparing with 150 gr bullets in 270. I used the BC of the Nosler Ballistic Tip for no particular reason, and I used a starting velocity of 2850 fps. Here's how it compares to the rest. It is just a fraction of a hair flatter than the 30-06 with the 165 NAB. Really, the two are too close to say anything about.
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Could you repost with different line dashes and more different colours? I'm having trouble telling them apart.
Cheers!
Edit: I'm doing a bit better the longer I look and your explanation after helped. Maybe don't need to...
That data is misleading at best. No average hunter is going to sight their rifles in at various ranges so that the top end of the arch is the same. They will sight at 100 yards. Zero them all in at that distance and your chart will look very different.
There are only a couple reasons to own a 270,...
1. If the rifle you want is not available in 280
2. If you can't handle the recoil of the same rifle in 7 Rem Mag..afterall, when you can push 160's as fast as the 270 can push a 130 with slightly more powder and recoil, why not?
NOTE: the above are tonque in cheek comments and are simply designed to jump start the 270 guys on a Friday morning......you guys awake now?
I own rifles in both chamberings as well as 280AI....they are virtually interchangeable.
1. If the rifle you want is not available in 280
2. If you can't handle the recoil of the same rifle in 7 Rem Mag
..afterall, when you can push 160's as fast as the 270 can push a 130 with slightly more powder and recoil, why not?NOTE: the above are tonque in cheek comments and are simply designed to jump start the 270 guys on a Friday morning......you guys awake now?
I own rifles in both chamberings as well as 280AI....they are virtually interchangeable.
Actually, I don't know anyone who zeros his hunting rifle at 100 yards. Everyone I know uses the maximum point blank range principle to sight their guns for hunting. The result, if you could see it, would look exactly like the charts. You should investigate the principle.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
No, it wouldn't look like the charts, since they don't all have the same MPBR. For instance, the 280 with 130's will have a different MPBR than the 270 with 150's if both have the same POI at 100, as it shows in the charts.
What the graph shows is that there's little difference between any of those calibers and loads. However, there are other bullets and loads available for the calibers listed, which would make the chart look quite different.
Dont get too wrapped up in figures and charts, the 270Win is a great cartridge,as are all the others mentioned here.
They all kill large numbers of game every year around the globe, REGUARDLESS of the trajectory of other cartridges.
Just have fun with them guys. Thats what this sport/passion is all about.
They all kill large numbers of game every year around the globe, REGUARDLESS of the trajectory of other cartridges.
Just have fun with them guys. Thats what this sport/passion is all about.
ginseng503
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- N. Ontario
I agree with Mr. H4831. There are way too many frangible bullets available in 270 and lots of other calibers. They should only be used on varmint - not big game.
Bullets for game, including small deer, should retain most of their weight, not tear up like sheet metal. Most off the shelf choices "cheap out" with the bullet component and should be labelled "varmint only".
I understand that the ammunition is often so powerful that even the wrong bullets will kill. I just believe in trying to do things as correctly as possible.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
As I mentioned earlier on, the 270 is a fairly recent addition to my caliber and firearm selection. I have a small variety of bullets to try out, such as Sierra 130gr and 150gr Spitzer BT's and 130gr Ballistic Silvertips by combined Technology. However, stepping up to todays bullet technology, I've settled on the Barnes 130gr TTSX BT's. That should handle anything I plan to go for with the 270.
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
I sight in all my rifles trying to maximize the reach, without having the bullet rise above 3". I fiddle with the ballistic software [nothing fancy] and sight in accordingly.
If the software says I should be 2.5" high at 100 yards, then I try to get my 3 shot groups to center on that. If the software says 2.2" high at 100 yards, then I do the same for it.
Sure, nothing is as perfect in the real world as it is on paper, but that's kind of the point. Even on paper the curves are so tight you can't really tell them apart. Now introduce some human error into that, and they'll all be doing the exact same thing.
That was what I was trying to get across. I like the 270, but it ain't magical.
As far as the bullet construction issue recently mentioned, I don't think you need a bullet retaining 99% of it's weight to kill a deer. I think you need good shot placement with a standard cup-and-core bullet [like a SGK or a Speer] and they'll drop faster. That's just my obervations. YMMV.
If the software says I should be 2.5" high at 100 yards, then I try to get my 3 shot groups to center on that. If the software says 2.2" high at 100 yards, then I do the same for it.
Sure, nothing is as perfect in the real world as it is on paper, but that's kind of the point. Even on paper the curves are so tight you can't really tell them apart. Now introduce some human error into that, and they'll all be doing the exact same thing.
That was what I was trying to get across. I like the 270, but it ain't magical.
As far as the bullet construction issue recently mentioned, I don't think you need a bullet retaining 99% of it's weight to kill a deer. I think you need good shot placement with a standard cup-and-core bullet [like a SGK or a Speer] and they'll drop faster. That's just my obervations. YMMV.
There are only a couple reasons to own a 270,...
1. If the rifle you want is not available in 280
2. If you can't handle the recoil of the same rifle in 7 Rem Mag
NOTE: the above are tonque in cheek comments and are simply designed to jump start the 270 guys on a Friday morning......you guys awake now?
I own rifles in both chamberings as well as 280AI....they are virtually interchangeable.
Dang it! I chewed half way through my mouse in fire-spewing anger before I realized you are just yanking chain.
Out of the 6.5 to 7mm range of calibres I have two glaring favorites: the .270 Winchester and the .284 Winchester. They all kill the same.
leveractionjunkie
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, BC
The only reason the 280R didn't completely eclipse the 270W is because Remington dropped the ball when they introduced it. If the .280 were properly loaded from the start we would all be talking about the .270 as if it were a cool old cartridge our grandpas used to use. LOL
The only reason the 280R didn't completely eclipse the 270W is because Remington dropped the ball when they introduced it. If the .280 were properly loaded from the start we would all be talking about the .270 as if it were a cool old cartridge our grandpas used to use. LOL
It is a cool old cartridge my grandpa used to use. Now I use it too--in the same rifle!!
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
So by those standards, all calibers within your prescribed "drop zone" at 300 are the same ?
It handles light bullets better than its parent case,the 30-06 and the 06 handles heavy bullets better. Between the two there are a pile of calibers which perform the same and a whole bunch which perform differently. In other words, the 270 is better than some calibers and worse than others. Make sense?
