Swiss Arms 100 yard ammo test (Pic heavy) Big update post #32

Did you clean the bore after strings using different ammo?
Most .223 / 556 from the factory is loaded with ball powders.
If you are mixing your shooting with stick powders, it can produce wonky results like 4" groups at 100m.
While I'm not suggesting that all of the generic factory should be producing great or even better results than what you posted, I do think there is something out of sorts with what you posted.
 
Pooker said:
Where abouts do you shoot in Ottawa, Ar180?
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I'm a member of EOHC, so I'll usually shoot there, although sometimes I'll go to Stittsville or Connaught.

beltfed said:
Did you clean the bore after strings using different ammo?
Most .223 / 556 from the factory is loaded with ball powders.
If you are mixing your shooting with stick powders, it can produce wonky results like 4" groups at 100m.
While I'm not suggesting that all of the generic factory should be producing great or even better results than what you posted, I do think there is something out of sorts with what you posted.
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Nope, I hadn't heard that before either. I still have MFS, UMC, Hornady TAP and V-MAX and Remington ammo. I'll do that and go re-shoot all of these and post the targets when I can. After, I'll update the thread with the new targets and we can see if there is a difference.
 
The problem with 10 shot groups is 5 shot mags. You have to move the rifle about a bit when you reload so the first 5 shots won't be under strictly the same conditions as the last 5.
 
dbala said:
The OP had 10-shot groups, not 5 -

I think 10 shots are more indicative of actual "real life" accuracy which might explain why there are somewhat larger than the 5-shot groups shown above.

Could be wrong, but I have noticed that my 3-shot groups are always tighter than 5-shot, & my 5-shot groups are always tighter than 10 shot.
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100 round groups are better still, but at some point you run into the law of diminishing returns.
 
dizzy said:
That ammo is not accurate at all compared to the Ruag GP90, which was engineered for the rifle. HUGE difference. mine would group 2.5-3 inches at 100 with ruag white pack.

Looks like the op has dialed in some very decent loads for his. Obviously its the ammo not the shooter.
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Good to know. I only use that ammo now to get a rifle on paper when sighting in. So far it's complete crap.

As for the 10 round groups people always go on about. 10 round groups don't show the "true" accuracy at all. Especially with a non bull barrel. Barrels heat up and accuracy wonders. Unless you're going to take 10 minutes between each shot. 5 round groups will show the abilities of the rifle just fine.

One of the ammo choices Ive found to be surprisingly accurate is the 55pmc. I have a VSSFII that shoots this stuff in one hole at 100 yards. Through semi autos it's been exceptionally accurate as well with multiple rifles. I haven't tried it yet with the Swiss arms.
 
I'll add my 2c with respect to my SAN. I have a 1:7 barrel black special and it groups around an inch or better with 5.56 75g Hornady TAP (not the .223). This is the best commercial load that I've found for it.

This opens up to around 2.5 in with XM193 and PMC M855, which is what I would expect from these loads.

You have to be consistent with how you hold this rifle, especially the forend since it isn't free floated. I mag rest it and hold it close to the receiver.

Given mag changes, the 10 shot groups aren't indicative and 5 are the best we can do.
 
I just wanted to add that you have done an outstanding job of recording, catergorizing and presenting your results. There could be a few controls added in to ensure a common baseline, but in all you've provided a transparent real world picture of the rifle's performance.
 
Ok, so I was at the range today and redid some of the groupings. I took the advice beltfed gave and cleaned the bore before shooting a different kind of ammo. The result was a noticeable reduction in group size for all brands of ammo except for the MFS (which actually got worse... :confused:).

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60gr Hornady TAP. This 5 shot group measured 1.7", much more along the lines of what should be expected of the Swiss Arms rifles. I still find that mine is picky on ammo, but most brands are now giving solid 2MOA groups for 10 shots.

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Remington 55gr PSP. From cleaning the bore before shooting this ammo, the group shrunk by about an inch. It's still not the best shooting ammo for this gun, but it's doing much better than before.

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Remington Premier. I was quite impressed by the improvement in performance in the Remington Premier 55gr accutip. 7 of the 10 shots are under an inch, and I suspect that the 3 that are way outside of the main group have something to do with me. Either way, much better than before. I'll have to pick up another few boxes of this and do some more testing as the accuracy potential with this ammo seems to be high.

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Remington UMC 55gr FMJ. I did a really big test for the UMC. In addition to the original 10 round group re-shoot, I decided to try a 20 rnd group. At just around 2.5" for the 20 round group shot at 100 yards, you do get quite consistent performance out of the UMC. Like with the other brands, about 1" was shrunk off of the grouping by cleaning the bore before switching ammo brands.

I found this to be a great learning experience for myself. I learned something that I did not know before (clean the bore when switching ammo makes), and I learned that my hand loads were not quite as consistent as I thought they were, and I may have found a factory ammo that can give my hand loads a challenge for accuracy. I'll keep doing more ammo tests as time goes on, and I'll update this thread if I find anything interesting.
 
Thanks for all the work you've done thus far. It's a huge undertaking all the range time, travel to and from, measuring groups, taking notes, trying to remember what the hell is what and then to post this all on CGN! Nice work. Question...Did you set out any wind flags? It doesn't take much of a condition change to affect group size. Flags might have explained some of those shots "outside" the group.

I realize I'm chiming in a little late here but have you been shooting that same hand load from your initial testing? I'd be curious as to what your group aggregate would add up to. A true measure of accuracy is what the average group size is after hundreds of groups. It looks like your initial hand loads have real potential.

I've been considering a Swiss Arms. Just a lot of cake for a factory rifle and as someone earlier on commented, I cannot help but expect all my rifles shoot like my custom bench rest rifle, so I'm always weary when buying something unfamiliar. "Only accurate rifles are interesting" unknown.

Thanks again for all your efforts.
 
I'd have been interested to see 55gr Federal American Eagle tested out. I find that of all the bulk commercial .223 I've shot through my 20" HBar AR15, the Federal AE has always given the tightest groups, with Remington UMC coming a close but definite second.

I'm also glad beltfed pointed out that you should clean the barrel of your rifle between different makes of cartridges. Never knew that. Glad I bought a boresnake earlier this year!

Also, seeing these results doesn't make me feel so bad about only getting 2 inch 10-shot groups with my reloads at 100m.
 
cancer said:
I'd have been interested to see 55gr Federal American Eagle tested out. .
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My rifle just happens to like the AE 55 grain.

Shooting prone out of the back of my pickup:

3" Shoot-n-C target at 100 meters.

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Figure 12 at 305 yds.

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I have been wanting to try an Acog for some time and finally came across one for a good price (TA11F).
As a long time iron sights shooter I am still getting used to the reticle but shooting at 300 is so damn easy its like taking candy from a baby. I can make head shots all day long with this thing.

Next weekend I will shoot Fig 12's at 400, 450 and 500 yds. With irons it gets hard to see the target at 400. With this Acog, no problem at all:D

I will try to find some match ammo and see if I can get rid of my damn 100m flyers (It happened 3 times today, 4 rounds MOA and one way off).

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AR180 shooter:

Have you found any heavier factory loads/bullets that stabilize well in the 1:10 barrel?

The 55 grain gets pushed around pretty good at 400yds. I want to shoot out to 600yds and a heavier longer bullet would work better. I'm thinking 62 -69 grain range.

Your results with Hornady 75grain are very interesting, I would be very interested to see how it groups at 300 yds from that barrel. I have to order in most ammo where I live so that stuff is not readily accessible.
 
J996 said:
AR180 shooter:

Have you found any heavier factory loads/bullets that stabilize well in the 1:10 barrel?

The 55 grain gets pushed around pretty good at 400yds. I want to shoot out to 600yds and a heavier longer bullet would work better. I'm thinking 62 -69 grain range.

Your results with Hornady 75grain are very interesting, I would be very interested to see how it groups at 300 yds from that barrel. I have to order in most ammo where I live so that stuff is not readily accessible.
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Well, the gun was designed to fire 63gr bullets, so I imagine 62gr BT would be fine. I'm firing 60gr V-Max without issue, and I've heard of people using 65gr Sierra Gameking bullets with great results. I've decided that my winter project is going to be experimenting with some of the Barnes and Berger bullets, around the 60-62gr range, maybe up to 69gr, and see what results I can achieve.
 
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