AR upper with no forward assist

I have used the FA. About -30C, and lube starting to get gummed up, but rifle running fine(user not). Waiting for target to appear. Check that a round loaded by partially pulling the bolt back. Let it forward too gently, and the bolt didn't fully engage. FA fixed it.

Sure there where a comedy of errors leading up to it, but the FA let me shoot 5 rnds rather then 4.
 
carbonrod said:
I have used the FA. About -30C, and lube starting to get gummed up, but rifle running fine(user not). Waiting for target to appear. Check that a round loaded by partially pulling the bolt back. Let it forward too gently, and the bolt didn't fully engage. FA fixed it.

Sure there where a comedy of errors leading up to it, but the FA let me shoot 5 rnds rather then 4.
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the same could have been fixed by simply using your thumb in the cutout on the carrier as stoner intended.
 
I can see the use in a dirty enviroment or reloading and trying to be quiet about it. Press checking etc..
It sounds wrong but many were taught to ride the charging handle closed and a couple presses on FA to ensure bolt was in battery.
I personally have little to no use for it. If I was in a "combat enviroment" i'll take it.
Amarican spirit arms side charger is avail. without FA as well.
 
Its funny really, we made some uppers with no FA and had a hard time selling them as "everyone" KNOWS it is a functional necessity for the guns operation, especially in malls and other dangerous places where zombies and ninjas lurk;)

We build them both with and without the FA, personally as I am a wuss so don't shoot in inclement weather and tend to shoot clean ammo I have never had to use the FA on any of my ARs.

And by the way our uppers are a little more expensive than the mass made higher end Colt, Daniels etc uppers but the are NOT double the cost, lets try and keep to the facts, which is our ATRS uppers are about $90.00 more than what a Colt or DD sells for. And worth it!!
 
The FA is there for the rare situations it was intended like overseas where you've been firing a lot and dust has gotten into your bolt (that's inevitable there) and the bolt sicks the odd round. I have seen this happen but only after a lot of firing and crud is in the rifle, especially when it is not lubricated. Cocking again would likely also sort out the stoppages anyways though and more stoppages are caused by the magazine anyways. So the FA can be mildly usefull but not really neccesarry.
 
90yjgimp said:
Agreed with Leibermuster. An FA is not required for civies who clean thier rifles after each range practise. Combats a different story and the reason the FA was eventually added to the M16 design.

The American Army needed the FA due to carbon foulling and corrosion during the Vietnam war. A lot of rounds can go down range before you get a chance to clean the rifle and all that foulling can and will eventually gum up the works a bit not allowing the bolt to go forward fully into battery. Changing a magazine isn't the answer in these situations and the rounds will just continue to have the same problem. A proper field strip and cleaning would help.....just to bad the enemy doesn't like giving people the time to do such things and there is no such thing as a Time Out or Do Over.
"We left with 72 men in our platoon and came back with 19, Believe it or not, you know what killed most of us? Our own rifle. Practically every one of our dead was found with his [M16] torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it."

- Marine Corps Rifleman, Vietnam.

We all know the M16 isn't the self cleaning rifle it was originally designed to be and for most situations a FA isn't required...but there is time when it is and your glad it's there.

Cheers
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It also works great for occaissions when the specification of your ammunition is changed without testing to see if the "new improved" ammo burns it's powder completely (and it's bullets stabilize). That's actually what killed those men - the rifle itself didn't change overnight, but the ammo did.
As long as your chain of command is doing it's job with regard to ammo spec, you should never need an FA - garbage in, garbage out.
 
Gunnerlove said:
The only time I use the forward assist is when closing the bolt after a press check. I know the thoughts on pulling the mag but I am not pulling a feeding mag.

I am literally trying to beat the constant use of the forward assist out of my guys and most are learning but some seem to be liking the abuse. "But on BMQ.........."
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Press checks are something that don't need to be done. Push and pull the magazine, cycle the charge handle and leave it alone. If you really must do an administrative(as in you're not firing for survival) press check, pull the magazine and ensure the top round has switched sides. This can and should be done visually, and physically(tactile) as the muscle memory of both methods will ensure you can successfully press check in both light and dark environments. Observing the chamber and f*cking with the FA afterwards does not confirm a chambered round and can lead to an unseated bolt. Removing the magazine has ZERO effect on the function of the rifle. If the magazine in question, is in fact in question. Discard it.

Leibermuster said:
You are just not reading what I'm telling you...there is no risk, when canting your rifle slightly to the left you will see what the problem is....Basically if the BCG is over 70% forward and the round is properly seated on the Bolt face ready to go into the chamber or is really half way in the chamber... then all it takes is pressing the FA. Most of the time the BCG will have extracted the previously fired shot and will grind to a stop when loading the new round.if it doesn't work probably best to just drop the mag and clear the weapon entirely. This really the only time I would use the forward assist, keep in mind if oil and cleaning was not available because of a high stress/war zone type situation striking the FA is no big deal.. In actuality the FA has little use in most situations, but i have come across using it for times I already have mentioned in previous posts.
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What I'm saying, is if you've loaded the rifle properly, and its properly lubricated, the FA is a wasted appendage. A failure to fire(type one stoppage) is rectified by your IA drill, which is TAP/TUG RACK. Not look into chamber(doesn't work in the dark) then play with the FA.

red magnum said:
Please enlighten us on the correct maner?

Surprised the CF don't call you up to give some pointers to JTF2 I'm sure they'd appreciate your imput.
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I've explained it above. If you missed it let me break it down short form.

IGNORE THE FORWARD ASSIST

Do tell, which professional school of instruction or "elite" unit teaches/preaches or uses the FA?

TDC
 
That little button is not weighting too much and probably not costing too much either since it has been mass produced forever.

Who cares? Just leave it there. Use it if you have to. And don't use if you do not like it.
 
GIGGIDY said:
I don't know if they made it into Canada but a couple years ago in a gun/pawn shop in Montana they had a bunch of DPMS rifles, I believe they were called "Sporticals" or some damn thing. No Forward Assist or dust cover. Looked weird. Maybe you could find a used upper and build it to your specs

Edit to Add found a picture:

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LOL, I bet they go that way because they use an extrusion for the receiver!!!
 
TDC said:
Press checks are something that don't need to be done. Push and pull the magazine, cycle the charge handle and leave it alone. If you really must do an administrative(as in you're not firing for survival) press check, pull the magazine and ensure the top round has switched sides. This can and should be done visually, and physically(tactile) as the muscle memory of both methods will ensure you can successfully press check in both light and dark environments. Observing the chamber and f*cking with the FA afterwards does not confirm a chambered round and can lead to an unseated bolt. Removing the magazine has ZERO effect on the function of the rifle. If the magazine in question, is in fact in question. Discard it.




What I'm saying, is if you've loaded the rifle properly, and its properly lubricated, the FA is a wasted appendage. A failure to fire(type one stoppage) is rectified by your IA drill, which is TAP/TUG RACK. Not look into chamber(doesn't work in the dark) then play with the FA.



I've explained it above. If you missed it let me break it down short form.

IGNORE THE FORWARD ASSIST

Do tell, which professional school of instruction or "elite" unit teaches/preaches or uses the FA?

TDC
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Actually it does work in the dark depending on the degree of low light..........there is a time and place to use the FA...most stoppages it is not required in my opinion, many of these said situation have been mentioned by me and others...

You really don't know when to give it a rest TDC...

I have mentioned a multiple of reasons why it does have it's place and you simple don't get it or refuse to acknowledge them.You don't need to be an elite commando to see what uses it has, but at times I question your intelligence here or is it just pure ignorance on your part.

I would say you are an individual that simply needs to learn it the hard way, and I bet you would still come up with some dumb ass explanation why you don't need too..

You don't want to have an FA well that is fine and dandy then buy an upper without it... who cares..I won't be signing up for a course with you anytime soon.

I don't see you're post as stating a position but you come off as more of a disturber of the peace sometimes in my opinion....
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Its funny really, we made some uppers with no FA and had a hard time selling them as "everyone" KNOWS it is a functional necessity for the guns operation, especially in malls and other dangerous places where zombies and ninjas lurk;)
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Thanks for the badly needed levity, ATRS! :D

In all my years of range queen competition (my high school staff members say I'm ### because of my teaching load :eek: ) I've never used the FA. I'm sitting here scratching my head and wondering if I ever consciously or sub-consciously used my FA... EVER. Darn! I cannot even remember! Maybe the FA is like wearing a condom; gives us a false sense of security! :D

Happy thanksgiving , everyone!

Barney
 
TDC said:
I've explained it above. If you missed it let me break it down short form.

IGNORE THE FORWARD ASSIST

Do tell, which professional school of instruction or "elite" unit teaches/preaches or uses the FA?

TDC
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I do ignore the forward assist, never needed it. I'm actually looking at the JP enterprise upper with no FA or dust cover, either that or one from ATRS again with no forward assist.

It's just that you say what is taught about the entire AR family of weapons is wrong in general. So on was thinking, if you'd like to come to the 3 gun match at spruce grove next Saturday you could show me how it's done. I'm always looking for ways to improve and I think I'll do that right now, off to the range with couple hundred rounds.

As for professional schools of instruction that teach it, well as far as I can tell the CF and the US army would probably qualify.
 
greentips said:
That little button is not weighting too much and probably not costing too much either since it has been mass produced forever.

Who cares? Just leave it there. Use it if you have to. And don't use if you do not like it.
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I agree in a sense. But like I said, I plan on cuting weight at every step of this build.

Also, and more importantly, I pefer the "de-horned" look of no FA.
 
smak_daddy said:
I agree in a sense. But like I said, I plan on cuting weight at every step of this build.

Also, and more importantly, I pefer the "de-horned" look of no FA.
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The single most signifcant weight comes from the barrel. Ditch those aftermarket stock and stick with the original colt stock, and use plastic sights instead of metal sights.

Basicly, get a Colt 6520 and swap out for a flattop upper. get that super skinny troy rail if you have to.
 
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