Co-witness confusion

Romeo Sierra

Romeo Sierra

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After humming and hawing for some time about wether or not to invest in the NEA hand guards I finally broke down.

Now, co-witness means that the rear sight ,front post and dot line up. Correct?
Correct.
I have a super low profile Burris fast fire 2 and I am looking down the line of sight. There is no way to get the rear site, red dot and the post to line up.
The base of the site is only 3mm high and it's blocking the irons.

My thought is that what most shooters call a co-witness is actually just the dot and the front post lining up.
OR
They are running after market irons that are taller.

Someone running a VZ/CZ platform with a red dot please explain.

Thanks.

RS
 
In order:

-Yes, but the dot doesn't necessarily have to appear in the middle of the optic when you do. Nor do you need to line them all up to use the dot.

-The Fastfire is too thick to co-witness on the NEA/VZ combo, that's why I got rid of mine. 3mm? I remember mine being a fair bit more than that from the bottom of the window to the top of the rail.

-Lining up the dot and front post is not what folks refer to.

-There are no taller aftermarket sights.
 
Just to add...

A true co-witness will see the dot fall inline with the front and rear sight

A lower 1/3 co-witness will allow the iron sights to fall in the lower portion of the optic view.

Its all a personal preference thing. Some like all 3 points(front sight, rear sight, and reticle) to fall in line with each other. Some prefer to have their optic without the obstruction of iron sights. On some platforms, such as an AR, you have so much rail space, and many optics come with a height which matches milspec iron sight height, so having a stand alone primary optic, with flip up backup sights, is a nice way to go. Still yet, some like a fixed front sight, with a flip down rear.

On the VZ, I prefer a lower 1/3 co-witness. Its the cleanest setup I've seen that's possible with the platform. Sure, there's enough rail options, that you can come up with some cluttered arrangement of optics and flip up sights on a VZ... but what's the point?!

Aimpoint Micro(or similar) on the NEA rail is the only optic/iron sights collaboration that doesn't require removing a CSA mount, or running a long, bastardized top rail, which needs removal for stripping the rifle down.
 
Romeo Sierra please read the follow to help you inderstand Co-Witness better;
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?2497-UNDERSTANDING-CO-WITNESS
 
Not to derail the thread, but how are the tolerances on the NEA handguard mount? I ask because the top guard on my CZ is really loose and rattles around a fair bit—not something I'd consider mounting an optic to.
I really like the idea of the NEA mount but this has made me wonder a little bit about the integrity and zeroing of the mount.
 
North Eastern Arms said:
Mount fits tight and also has provisions for set screw installation to take up any play.
Click to expand...

Ah, fantastic! It was between your mount and the scout mount that replaces the rear sight, which I'm not huge on as I like the idea of being able to use my irons as well, but that just sold me on yours.
Thanks!
 
Romeo Sierra said:
So, what optic lines up the rear sight, red dot AND the front post?

RS
Click to expand...

I don't know of any optic that could, as the NEA rail is already set lower over the front end, and allows an H1/T1 Micro to 1/3 co-witness. Really, unless you have the ability to drop your rear sight out of the way, the front, rear, and reticle of the dot would be too busy and cluttered to use well.
 
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OK, so now my sight picture is actually more cluttered than if it was above and clear of the front sight hood.
A bunch of dough spent just to find out I am worse of than I was before.
Bummer.
 
You'll never find an optic low enough to put the front sight in the center of the optic, if that's what you're after.

Lower 1/3 is the closest you will get, and for that you need either an Aimpoint Micro or, I hear, a Bushnell TRS 25? I don't know whether any of the Vortex stuff will allow cowitness.

Now, with any red dot, the dot itself will move around in the sight, so if you're down on the irons, the dot will still line up with the sights. But it won't be centered in the optic, it'll be down in the lower third. So most guys will set the optic at a comfortable cheek weld height, and then if they have to cram down a bit to get to the irons in an emergency, that's entirely possible (particularly with a small optic like a T1).

Obviously if you have the cash the Aimpoint is the way to go.
 
Romeo Sierra said:
So, what optic lines up the rear sight, red dot AND the front post?

RS
Click to expand...

Why do you want to line them all up? There's absolutely no need for you to line all three points up.

Look over the sights and put the dot on the target. If your sight is off or fails, shoot the irons.
 
Romeo Sierra said:
OK, so now my sight picture is actually more cluttered than if it was above and clear of the front sight hood.
A bunch of dough spent just to find out I am worse of than I was before.
Bummer.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't really understand... You want a setup that allows both the iron sights and the reticle to line up?! ....why?

Red dots are intended for fast target acquisition, and if you have your iron sights in that same picture, you might as well just be using the iron sights. It will seem far too cluttered with all that going on in the way of your target.

In the AR world, co-witness generally refers to the front sight lining up with the optic reticle, and the rear sight(although it would line up as well), is out of the picture as it is flipped down.

A rifle platform like the VZ is going to be limiting in comparison, as the iron sights sit so low, and with the ejection and disassembly of the rifle, space for mounting an optic is fairly limited. Any mounting of an optic above the receiver is going to require removal before stripping the gun, and possibly even working on a serious misfeed. Any mounting of an optic with a scout mount, is going to knock out your rear iron sight, and is worthless in the event of an optic failure.

As Misanthropist said, I think you'll find that the NEA rail with an optic like the Aimpoint Micro, which allows the red dot and iron sights to both be operational at the same time, and without obstructing eachother's view... is going to be the best route.
 
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