Has anyone compared the Ar15 to the Cz858?

Which platform is 'Better'

  • I prefer the 858

    Votes: 51 23.6%

  • I prefer the AR15

    Votes: 118 54.6%

  • I've only handled one or the other and have no opinion

    Votes: 47 21.8%
  • Total voters
    216
C

copeland

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I just recently purchased an 858 and yet to do a range report.

I was wondering if anyone has a comparison between the AR15 and the 858? Is there a measure of superiority?

Let's compare:

CZ858 Pros:

1.) Cheaper
2.) Steel, machined receiver
3.) Aftermarket is developing nicely (Grips, Rails, etc)
4.) Cheaper ammo
5.) 50 year old history
6.) Piston operation
7.) Non-restricted
8.) 7.62x39

CZ858 Cons:

1.) Surplus ammo, not much for quality ammunition
2.) Fewer manufacturers/models

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AR15 Pros:

1.) Huge market development
2.) continued growth in performance and function
3.) Better quality ammo
4.) Accuracy and tuning
5.) Multiple calibers

AR15 Cons:

1.) More expensive
2.) Direct impingement
3.) Reliability??

I realize some pros and cons may be switched around and skewed so this post is going to be a baseline for further discussion.
 
I prefer the 858 but thats just me....

I prefer the irons, I prefer the feel, I prefer how it strips down, I prefer how it functions..... VS my M4 carbine clone (chinese)
 
Ammo is not any cheaper. Cheap surplus is available for the VZ, where you cannot import 5.56 surplus due to ITAR. Non-corrosive 7.62x39 is the same price as .223/5.56 ammo. Personally, I think it's apples and oranges, but I do know one thing for a fact:

If you don't own both.......









... your d*ck will fall off!
 
copeland said:
I just recently purchased an 858 and yet to do a range report.

I was wondering if anyone has a comparison between the AR15 and the 858? Is there a measure of superiority?

Let's compare:

CZ858 Pros:

1.) Cheaper
2.) Steel, machined receiver
3.) Aftermarket is developing nicely (Grips, Rails, etc)
4.) Cheaper ammo
5.) 50 year old history
6.) Piston operation
7.) Non-restricted
8.) 7.62x39

CZ858 Cons:

1.) Surplus ammo, not much for quality ammunition
2.) Fewer manufacturers/models

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AR15 Pros:

1.) Huge market development
2.) continued growth in performance and function
3.) Better quality ammo
4.) Accuracy and tuning
5.) Multiple calibers

AR15 Cons:

1.) More expensive
2.) Direct impingement
3.) Reliability??

I realize some pros and cons may be switched around and skewed so this post is going to be a baseline for further discussion.
Click to expand...

Steel receiver isn't necessary for an AR so its not a pro for the VZ.

The AR has a near identical history, which in itself doesn't mean sh*t.

Short stroke piston system is great, but there are no issues with DI, just fabricated BS often a result of poor/absent maintenance or lubricaton.

7.62x39 is neither a pro nor a con, its a calibre. Its cheap to buy(for now) but its ballistic and terminal performance is lacking. When used within its limits, its a very capable round.

Fewer manufacturers isn't a con either. If it works(as the current selection does) then one supplier is fine.

Non restricted is a paper advantage, not a performance advantage.

The aftermarket accessories are growing, but the system is not conducive to being modified with great success. Optics can be difficult to mount(think ejection) and forward mounted optics can make the rifle top and front heavy and cause issues with regards to offset.

DI for the AR is a non issue, as is reliability. Cost is the only real con, and even that is becoming less of an issue.

TDC
 
I like the AR better, but the fact that the 858 is a non,
means that this is one case where you would want "both"
Hopefully it will remain non-restricted, after the fateful day.
 
The only things the CZ 858 has going for it over the AR-15 are being non-restricted, lower cost, and current availability of inexpensive surplus ammo. The AR is a functionally superior rifle all practically other aspects.

The ammo cost advantage could easily go away if the supply of surplus 7.62x39mm dries up in a few years. .223 can be reloaded with bulk 55 grain FMJ for a lower cost than for comparable 7.62x39mm. Availability of Boxer-primed brass in quantity could also be an issue.
 
I was wondering if anyone has a comparison between the AR15 and the 858? Is there a measure of superiority?
Click to expand...

Accuracy! Especially if you're shooting at any distance.

You can also get an AR in many different calibers, including 7.62x39.
 
kombayotch said:
Accuracy! Especially if you're shooting at any distance.

You can also get an AR in many different calibers, including 7.62x39.
Click to expand...

I would say that is debatable. I've shot my 858 to 400 yards with acceptable accuracy that would be on par with a similarly setup AR. No doubt you can tune an AR for far greater precision with far less hassle than an 858. Not to mention the 5.56/.223 round is much more capable than the 7.62x39 at range.

TDC
 
why are you conducting a poll on a side by side comparison on 2 proven platforms after you've purchased your 858? buyer's remorse? there are schools of homers/fans for each platform and a plethora of reasons/justification for one's superiority over the other.

but here's the bottom line which I believe the CZ's are even factor in the carbine or a_ _ _ _ _t rifle when it comes to purchasing time:

*if the AR was not-restricted, this thread would be moot.
*if the AK platform was not prohibited, this thread would be moot.
*and if 223Rem and 7.62x39 ammunition cost the same, this thread would be moot.
 
I have both, and the AR beats it hands down for ergos, mag changes and modularity. The vz is more reliable. It doesn't s**t where it eats.
 
I think the AR is a better rifle, but the VZ is pretty good. I do the majority of my carbine shooting with a VZ because it's cheap.

I think the rock-n-lock mag is inferior to the stuff-it-in-the-hole AR approach. I also think the 5.56 is a better round than the x39.

When you gear up a 58 with the NEA parts, it's pretty good, but they are nowhere near as versatile as the AR series. Optics are harder to deal with...there is really only one good setup IMO: NEA rail + Aimpoint Micro. ARs have all kinds of options, from a micro to a magnified optic for longer ranges, which I think the 5.56 is much better suited to.

Recoil is less on an AR, so follow-up shots are quicker. Running them side-by-side at carbine courses makes this pretty obvious. But the VZ series that I have seen in that environment (including mine) have performed pretty well, aside from the inherent disadvantages of the platform.


I do prefer the VZ to the AK, though. I think reliability is equal or better, and in my experience the VZ is probably a little more accurate. I don't have thousands of rounds through AKs but I have spent a bit of time with them and my feeling is that the VZ is a stiffer rifle. I have found it to be a better performer for me, anyway. And, of course, it's lighter, has a last-shot hold open which I like, and you can actually use the safety.

Anyway, I would personally take a mil-spec AR over a VZ, and a VZ over an AK. If the choice was 6920 or 551, THEN I would really struggle with the choice.
 
Legal 10 round magazines are a huge plus for the AR-15.
Anyone competing in 3-gun tournaments will testify to that fact.

Optics mounting is another huge plus for the AR-15. The CZ has the top ejection port EXACTLY where you would like to put your optics. So you need to either mount your red-dot way at the front or way at the back instead of right where it should be on top of the receiver.
 
I own both, a AR15 & a CZ858. I like the fact that the 7.62x39 ammo is cheap for the surplus stuff. The CZ858 has less moving parts which i like. If i had to choose only one out of these two rifles, my choice would be the CZ858. The 7.62x39 round is good up to 300 yards. If i needed to shoot a further distance, i'd pick up a rifle in 308, 3006, 300WM, or for really far distance 338LM.
 
Even if the AR 15 and AK 47 were to be de-restricted/de-prohibited tomorrow, I would still stick to my CZ 858 and Ruger Mini 14.
 
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