Has anyone compared the Ar15 to the Cz858?

Which platform is 'Better'

  • I prefer the 858

    Votes: 51 23.6%

  • I prefer the AR15

    Votes: 118 54.6%

  • I've only handled one or the other and have no opinion

    Votes: 47 21.8%
  • Total voters
    216
Clobbersauras said:
^^^
Not-again-picard.jpg
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http://1.bp.########.com/_U9UMwQg1ck8/TJ4I5Wnko3I/AAAAAAAAAGI/82c202jT-zU/s1600/DoubleFacePalm.jpg
 
this whole thread is full of face palm.
god I hope theres been a lot of sarcasm here....

mag changes are no fun with the cz, but you can't put mags in upside down...cou:
hahahahaha. kidding. really I am.
 
All right guys: I got to handle an AR 15, and I own a CZ 858, and here's my take on them:

AR 15: They feel reasonably solid, yet light, so Eugene Stoner got those two features right. The original iron sight setup is just as nice as the Garand-style sights (Which overall, are my favorites), and they have some slick features, such as the straight-in magwell, and bolt release lever, both of which facilitate fast reloading/rechambering, and the ambidextrous charging handle. It uses a gas impingement system, which from my experience with the Hakim rifle, blows the gases and soot back into the action, so the part about requiring regular cleaning/lubrication is correct. I have not fired it though, so I cannot give a reliable estimate of accuracy or reliability. I suspect they are also more mechanically complex due to all their extra features.

VZ 58: Pretty much a more solid version of your standard combloc rifle, built more for raw function than ease of operation. The safety is almost as nice as the AR 15's, but their irons are your standard leaf-style sights. Not the best, but they are functional. Accuracy-wise, they also aren't the best due to their thin barrel. They have the bolt hold-open feature, which in my view, really sets them apart from the AK 47 series, and they are very easy to strip and maintain due to their sliding pins, which gives easy access to its gas system (piston driven short stroke) and trigger group/recoil springs. Reliability-wise, I have had few stoppages with mine, and they proved easy to fix. They use the more traditional "rocker" set-up for the magwell and you have to manually rack the bolt to chamber a new round when reloading from an empty mag. No bolt release lever in this case. Overall though, they have a cheap feel, something that I do not get with either the SKS, Mini 14 or AR 15, but they are remarkably solid.
 
Sniper### said:
The VZ58 is way more reliable then any AR, just look on youtube how many malfunction vids there are for AR's

AR has to be drenched in oil and cleaned daily to properly work (according to original owner's manual)

7.62x39 has way more power then the wimpy 55 grain 223, Discovery did a direct shoot out between AK (same ammo as 58) and AR15, the 223 couldn't even go through a cinder block, while the 7.62x39 shattered it to pieces

Try getting a little dirt or rain in your AR and see how many jams/failures you get

The aftermarket for 58 is getting really big, you can have a good portion of the accessories you find on AR's, and because both systems rely mostly on weaver rail, they are interchangeable

It's also funny to note how delta guys and seals trust their life with an AK in afghanistan as opposed to their standard AR's/M4's
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"You're out of your ####ing element".
 
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I think the biggest pro/con differences between the platforms are:

1 - VZ has a removeable dust cover and the AR has a solid upper, so you can mount optics directly to the AR. Further, the VZ ejects straight up and the AR off to the side.
Edge - AR

2 - The AR needs that receiver extension, so you can shorten the barrel, but it'll have a longer overall length than a VZ with a folding stock or even no stock.
Edge - VZ

But really, if you compare the Vz58 to the M16A1, you'd find they have more in common. Main differences would be calibre, sight style and sight radius and overall length.
 
Craftsman 441 said:
I think the biggest pro/con differences are:

1 - VZ has a removeable dust cover and the AR has a solid upper, so you can mount optics directly to the AR. Further, the VZ ejects straight up and the AR off to the side.
Edge - AR

2 - The AR needs that receiver extension, so you can shorten the barrel, but it'll have a longer overall length than a VZ with a folding stock or even no stock.
Edge - VZ
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AR vs VZ !!!

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An AR has two to three times the range. The AR is faster to reload.
Calibres in that platform are abundant(5.56/.223, 7.62x39,.308..etc)
The ergonomics of the AR blow the CZ out the water, when it comes to handling.
The CZ has that cheap import feel and it's users suffer from low self esteem.
 
:sucks:

I just don't understand all these comparison threads? seriously do people worry that much what other people thinks about your purchases?

well to be honest they both make your ass look fat! :p
 
hbean said:
:sucks:

I just don't understand all these comparison threads? seriously do people worry that much what other people thinks about your purchases?

well to be honest they both make your ass look fat! :p
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No.... It's not the rifle that makes your ass look fat, it's the fat that makes your ass look fat...
 
hbean said:
:sucks:

I just don't understand all these comparison threads? seriously do people worry that much what other people thinks about your purchases?

well to be honest they both make your ass look fat! :p
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:agree: Well I have them both. The only con is that you can't take an AR into the bush. Otherwise, they are both a lot of fun.
 
One huge con for the AR is that you can buy a tool kit for $100 from Brownells and use it to disassemble the rifle and swap barrels and stocks etc, or even buy AR parts piece by piece and "build" your own rifle exactly the way you want it.
Also the straightline recoil of the bolt into your shoulder from the AR means it doesn't "rock-n-roll" like a VZ.
Good guys shoot AR's and bad guys shoot AK'sLaugh2
If you add up all the pro's between the 2, you will see that the AR blows the VZ away, like a Lamborgini to a Sunfire.
I will admit though when the VZ's came out, I was like, "damn I have got to get one of these" because I don't have an AK and this is as close as I can get to one.
 
Which platform is better for what?

It's kinda like asking which is better: A Subaru Impreza, or a Mazda 3 Sport? They outwardly share many characteristics, but are also apples and oranges. (Sorry, I am a bit of a mixed metaphor man this morning!).

I prefer 5.56mm for accuracy, personally, but hate the AR platform - ergo, neither of these rifles is interesting to me.
 
copeland said:
I just recently purchased an 858 and yet to do a range report.

I was wondering if anyone has a comparison between the AR15 and the 858? Is there a measure of superiority?

Let's compare:

CZ858 Pros:

1.) Cheaper
2.) Steel, machined receiver
3.) Aftermarket is developing nicely (Grips, Rails, etc)
4.) Cheaper ammo
5.) 50 year old history
6.) Piston operation
7.) Non-restricted
8.) 7.62x39

CZ858 Cons:

1.) Surplus ammo, not much for quality ammunition
2.) Fewer manufacturers/models

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AR15 Pros:

1.) Huge market development
2.) continued growth in performance and function
3.) Better quality ammo
4.) Accuracy and tuning
5.) Multiple calibers

AR15 Cons:

1.) More expensive
2.) Direct impingement
3.) Reliability??
I realize some pros and cons may be switched around and skewed so this post is going to be a baseline for further discussion.
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These are not Con's at all
 
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