CC in Canada..what would you carry?

These threads are always fun to read.

Carrying a gun is nice...for about 2 months. Then you begin to recognise it as not so much a cool thing but as a useful thing, a tool. That's when you start thinking that your full size gun is a damn pain in the ass and that the lighter and smaller you can go while keeping the usefulness, the better. You want to know what's the best CC gun? The one you don't even remember your carrying until you need it.
 
Probably a Walther P99 in .40 S&W for concealed.

For open carry, my 1911 or the biggest m-f**kn Desert Eagle I can find. After all, nothing offsets looking like a douchebag like being able to shoot a guy through the armour of the guy standing in front of him.

Or maybe I'm just naturally ostentatious.:D

Heheheh...
 
4.25" barreled Glock 29 = 10mm or spare 40 S&W barrel loads would be my 135gr reloads.

I would also consider buying a S&W model 60 5" barrel 5 shot in 357mag.
 
Same gun I say every month when we do this thread...G17 cut down to G19 grip size.

Weapon light on the gun, green front/yellow rear tritiums, Atomic Dog holster IWB at 4:00.


Would also consider a quality full-size 1911 in .45.

There's no particular advantage to .45acp for defensive purposes, but 1911s run better in .45 for a variety of reasons.


People who say you can't carry a full-size .45 have never carried a 1911.

People who say you need .45 for defensive purposes don't shoot enough.

People who think that a .45 compensates for failing to hit a vital organ don't know what they're talking about and should be ignored.

There are two ways to stop somebody who means you harm so severe you can actually justify shooting them:

1) convince them to stop. How do you know when they're convinced? You don't. You're just gambling.

2) ensure they cannot continue projecting force at the level they are when you decide you're better off dealing with legal, and real, nightmares, than just hoping that you don't die.

There is ONE way to ensure they can no longer project force: make their brain give up control of their body. That's it.

You can do this mechanically or hydraulically: either wreck the brain itself, or cause a sufficient loss of blood pressure to the brain that it doesn't work right.

So your options are: shoot them in the central nervous system, or shoot them in a vital organ and make them bleed until they pass out. Nothing else ensures that they will stop.

This level of intervention is so extreme that it's very rarely warranted, of course. But it does happen, or we wouldn't have police carrying guns.

Anyway, this is all just background to the key points about defensive hardware:

1) it must, must, MUST work when you need it to. One stoppage in three hundred rounds is no good. The odds of a stoppage must be extremely tiny, because in the event of a critical incident, statistically speaking, you will empty your gun. The more rounds, the more likely an unreliable gun will cease to function.

2) it must fire a projectile which will generate sufficient penetration to hit vitals. Fortunately, 9mm, .40 and .45 all do this. 10mm does this as well, then sends the target a picture of you f**king the target's mom. But all the standard service calibers work fine.

3) pistol calibers wound through permanent cavity ONLY. The temporary cavity they generate is insignificant. Therefore, you should be using a bullet that opens up substantially in addition to retaining the vast majority of its weight (for penetration purposes) so that your odds of generating substantial blood loss increase.

4) the gun should be sufficiently accurate that you can make the hits you need to make, while panicking and terrified. Generally most guns are not a problem in this regard.

5) YOU should be sufficiently accurate that you can make the hits you need to make, while panicking and terrified. This is the real issue. Most people can't shoot to save their lives...despite intending, and, in some sad cases, HOPING, to shoot to save their lives.

My choice would be a Glock, but the pistol is the least of your worries, unless you just have to go full retard and carry a gun with known issues.

Other good choices include:

QUALITY 1911, full size, .45acp
M&P 9, 40 and 45
226 or 229
USP/P2000/P30/HK45

I have no experience with the Walther P99s and so on. My impression is favourable...but I am not in a position to give them the thumbs up or down.

Poor choices for carry include:

"budget" 1911s unless they have been THOROUGHLY improved by someone who REALLY knows what they are doing
guns from manufacturers that consistently suck...I am talking to you, Hi-point
any gun you bought because it's "just as good" as something else, but cheaper
any gun at all, unless you shoot at least a few thousand rounds through it every year and are serious about things like "training" and "improvement"

Anyway, we'll never see CCW in this country IMO. I am in favour of concealed carry for people with a high degree of training. I used to be in favour of concealed carry, generally. These days...I am still in favour of it, but if it was available only to people with, say, one hundred hours of professional instruction time, then at least we'd have more fairly competent shooters, just because it would be worth getting the training if it meant you could get a concealed carry permit.

And training is THE most important factor in defensive shooting as far as I'm concerned. Without training, chances are pretty good that you will shoot AT an attacker.

But shooting AT someone is not what will save you.

As I was reading this.....all I was thinking was 12ga slugs or buck...or both (buck and ball). IMHO a pistol only buys time to get to your rifle (someone else has said this before) and if the zombies are close enough to threaten your life then I don't think a rifle would serve the same as your trusty 12ga. I'm told that in the CF the 12ga is referred to as the "Demoralizer" there is a very good reason for that I'm sure. I know CC for a 12ga is stupid....then again so is CC IMHO. what's the point? what is it that we do in the daily routine of our lives (Canada anyhow) that someone needs CC? The wild west this is not....can someone post a case in Canada where CC would have made difference in an outcome to the positive?
 
Virtually any centerfire long gun will work a lot better than a pistol.

Nobody carries them because a) it's hard to find a decent holster and b) this isn't mogadishu.

As far as situations go where Concealed Carry would have helped...any instance of someone being gravely wounded or killed by an assailant is an instance where it potentially could have helped.

Just to take a single example off the top of my head which was local to me personally: Jamie Kehoe was killed on a bus a matter of weeks ago when a fight broke out between two women. His throat was slashed by a third individual.

Had someone on the bus been legally carrying, it's possible that would never have happened. Had no-one on the bus been carrying, but Concealed Carry was legal and relatively common, it's also possible that the incident would never have happened, just because the risks of committing violent crime are greater when an unknown number of victims are secretly armed. Of course it's also possible that it would have happened exactly the same way; there is no way to know. But the fact is that in US states where concealed carry laws are enacted, violent crime diminishes.

A friend of mine down in the US is married to a woman who shot and killed an attacker with her legal carry weapon about 10 or 12 years ago. She carried in her purse. One day she had a knock at the door and, upon opening it, was attacked. She was fairly severely beaten by the time she got to her purse, but she did get there, and killed her attacker (a man totally unknown to her) before he finished beating her to death. Prior to that incident, I was not a supporter of concealed carry, as a matter of fact, because I thought that the odds of it ever actually helping were tiny, and I bought in to that "they'll probably use it against you" line (which now seems totally stupid to me).

Then it saved somebody I knew.

Incidents in which concealed carry would save you are rare. But as my father once said to me, "you will probably never need a gun in your entire life. But if what you need is a gun, nothing else will do."
 
I figure the best pistol for CC is one that you shoot the most, are comfortable with (hence shooting the most), is accurate and reliable in your hands.

Practically almost any pistol can be concealed if you know how.

For me it would be:

1) P7M8
2) P7M13
3) Glock 17/19 or 22/23
 
It's weird how trends change. Back when I was a kid watching those cop shows back in the 70's-80's all the cool detectives carried snubbies. Now, the current generation knows little about them (they're all banned).

Anyhow, when it comes to concealment and weight, go SNUBBIES go! :)






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Well I am still waiting for my upgrade from PAL to RPAL to come in the mail but if I am just dreaming here, I think I would love to cc a pimped out tt-33 or i guess more realistically a 1911, just cause the slimmer frame.
 
I would go with a Walther PPK just like James Bond!

The new James Bond carries a Walther P99. It's a bit big for CC but I have one and love it!! I shoot it for IDPA and it works great.
 
what is it that we do in the daily routine of our lives (Canada anyhow) that someone needs CC? The wild west this is not....can someone post a case in Canada where CC would have made difference in an outcome to the positive?

Just a couple of summers ago, some wackjob started stabbing an innocent (and random) woman at a strip mall in Brampton. When her husband rushed over to help, he too was stabbed. Both died at the scene. Had the husband (or anyone in the vicinity) been carrying, one or possibly both, of those innocent people would still be alive today, and we'd be short one homicidal dirtbag.

I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it, and not have it. Rather than pulling out an iPhone and calling 911, and hoping the cavalry arrives in time, I'd much rather pull out something along the lines of a Kimber Warrior or Sig Tac Ops 1911, and be able to protect myself.
 
...
can someone post a case in Canada where CC would have made difference in an outcome to the positive?
[/QUOTE]

Just in the last week (in Edmonton), we've had a rash of random assaults/muggings. At least 2 of the victims are in critical condition in hospital, and may be permanently brain injured.

Which is better (and cheaper)? To have the attackers stopped (maybe permanently-so they never hurt anyone again); or, have innocent lives ruined forever with the State having to support them (in case they can't fully recover?)
 
Assuming CC would also mean a 12-6 class gun could be used, a CZ P06 chambered in .40 S&W would be nice. Also the P229 .40, Glock 23, or USP Compact would be nice.

If I could dream...:D
 
If CC became available, I'm going to assume that 12.6 is no longer a problem, so I'd probably buy several handguns to carry.

-Smith and Wesson Model 438
-Colt Officers ACP or another 1911 manufacturer who makes a similar one, like Kimber.
-9x18 Milsurp Makarov
-Subcompact Glock in 9 or 40.

I'd carry each one for a week, then see which one feel the best to carry, buy a thousand rounds or so of ammo and train like hell with it.

Also, in this magical world, can we own HK91''s, FAL's, and AK's? If so, I'd probably just lug around my 92FS and blow a ton of money on those rifles first.
 
Probably a Walther P99 in .40 S&W for concealed.

For open carry, my 1911 or the biggest m-f**kn Desert Eagle I can find. After all, nothing offsets looking like a douchebag like being able to shoot a guy through the armour of the guy standing in front of him.

Or maybe I'm just naturally ostentatious.:D

Heheheh...

It's about time. I thought I was going to get through all twelve pages before someone said it. All you guys saying Glocks and SW MP9 must have never held a Walther P99. It's twice the gun... and twice the price.
 
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