Strange barrel on Remington 1100LW

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pacobillie

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I just picked up a used Remington 1100LW in .410 bore. It came with two barrels, one being a standard 2 1/2 inch skeet barrel, and the other being a bit of an enigma. The "enigma" barrel has two walls, with the outer wall being about the diameter of a 20 gauge barrel, and the inner wall having a .410 bore. The inner wall finishes about 1.5 inch short of the muzzle. Not sure what the purpose is.

The only inscription on the barrel is "Simmons Gun Specialties, Inc., Kansas City, MO which is engraved on the side of the vent rib at the front end. The chamber length appears to be 3 inches. There are no other markings on the barrel.

I have not shot or patterned the gun, and the previous owner had merely put a few shells through it.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of such a barrel, and what is the purpose of such a design?

Another mystery is that the standard barrel, although marked "sk" has an inside diameter of .387 at the muzzle, which would be a lot of constriction for a .410 barrel. Is that normal?
 
I would contact Simmons, they should be able to give you the scoop on the barrel. The recess could be for choke tubes.

Barrel #2 could be marked incorrectly, .387 would be full choke.
 
Lodi said:
I would contact Simmons, they should be able to give you the scoop on the barrel. The recess could be for choke tubes.
Click to expand...

I researched Simmons and I am under the impression that they make and install aftermarket ribs. As mentioned, there are no markings on the barrel itself.
 
Simmons is, or was, a full shop that specialized in ribs but did considerably more than that. I would give them a call, while they may not currently do that kind of work they may have the info you want.
 
Speculation here, but I would guess the barrel with the outer wall is built that way to shoot skeet. The extra weight was used to smooth out the swing on the 410's normally whippy barrel. I don't know if there would be any collectible factor in it or not.
 
Seen many weird conversions Simmons did in the 60's and 70's. Remember having a 20ga LW as you describe but totally converted internally to shoot 28ga. I would say you have the same just converted to shoot 410.
The step back on the end was probally to allow one of the adjustable chokes of the day like a polychoke or cutts to be properly fitted.
I would say right now that barrel has no choke to speak of.
As far as collector value none. Once remington started to make true 410 and 28ga guns you could not give a simmons conversion away.
 
3macs1 said:
Seen many weird conversions Simmons did in the 60's and 70's. Remember having a 20ga LW as you describe but totally converted internally to shoot 28ga. I would say you have the same just converted to shoot 410.
The step back on the end was probally to allow one of the adjustable chokes of the day like a polychoke or cutts to be properly fitted.
I would say right now that barrel has no choke to speak of.
As far as collector value none. Once remington started to make true 410 and 28ga guns you could not give a simmons conversion away.
Click to expand...

It has not been converted to shoot .410. The receiver is a true .410 receiver. I measured the ejection port and nothing but a .410 shell would fit through.

However, the barrel may be from a "conversion kit" as you suggest. The Seller is not the original owner. So, he does not know the origin of the barrel.
 
pacobillie said:
It has not been converted to shoot .410. The receiver is a true .410 receiver. I measured the ejection port and nothing but a .410 shell would fit through.

However, the barrel may be from a "conversion kit" as you suggest. The Seller is not the original owner. So, he does not know the origin of the barrel.
Click to expand...

I am not talking the receiver just the barrel. On the converted receivers mine being a 20ga only a 28ga would fit through.They filled the rest of the void with some form of metal. That being said it was very noticable that the area was filled.
You have a barrel off an old simmos conversion does before remington came out with the 410's in 1100.

Thinking out loud again the 20ga modified baarrel will not fit on a 410 receiver with out substancial mods if even possible. Have you tried this barrel and it fits?? If so can you see any added metal inside your receiver.
Mine was 20ga receiver and 20ga barrel both convered to 28ga by simmons.
 
What you have is commonly referred to as an "Over-Barrel".

IIRC,a NY State shooter, Ken Sedleckey I blieve his name was, first developed the
over-barrel concept for the Mod. 42 Winchester, which was all the rage for 410
shooters in the late 50's/early 60's. Canadian Skeet icon Barney Hartman was an
early convert that used his 42 over-barrel to great effect to set a number of
Canadian records in the 60's. I've seen and shot a couple of them ... a Scarborough
Skeet shooter I know now has Barney's old 42 "redone" with Exhibition grade wood.
Spectacular.

Ernie "Pop" Simmons / Simmons Gun Specialties did a number of the over-barrel
conversions for the Skeet crowd ... particularly 42's and 1100's. The idea being was to
afford the little guns a bit more weight, but primarily to give the barrel a "bigness" to
it, so that it afforded a view when looking down the rib similat to a 20ga, gun, rather
than the dinky little pencil-ribbed barrel of the 410. Back then, 4 guns and 4-barrel sets were the rule, barrel sub gauge inserts were not too common and far from perfected.
Barney shot a 20 ga. Browning with 28 ga inserts ... again IIRC, they were Purbaugh tubes, Briley & Kolar weren't in the game yet ! :)
 
beretta boy said:
What you have is commonly referred to as an "Over-Barrel".

IIRC,a NY State shooter, Ken Sedleckey I blieve his name was, first developed the
over-barrel concept for the Mod. 42 Winchester, which was all the rage for 410
shooters in the late 50's/early 60's. Canadian Skeet icon Barney Hartman was an
early convert that used his 42 over-barrel to great effect to set a number of
Canadian records in the 60's. I've seen and shot a couple of them ... a Scarborough
Skeet shooter I know now has Barney's old 42 "redone" with Exhibition grade wood.
Spectacular.

Ernie "Pop" Simmons / Simmons Gun Specialties did a number of the over-barrel
conversions for the Skeet crowd ... particularly 42's and 1100's. The idea being was to
afford the little guns a bit more weight, but primarily to give the barrel a "bigness" to
it, so that it afforded a view when looking down the rib similat to a 20ga, gun, rather
than the dinky little pencil-ribbed barrel of the 410. Back then, 4 guns and 4-barrel sets were the rule, barrel sub gauge inserts were not too common and far from perfected.
Barney shot a 20 ga. Browning with 28 ga inserts ... again IIRC, they were Purbaugh tubes, Briley & Kolar weren't in the game yet ! :)
Click to expand...

You are talking my years now.:rockOn: I still have all of my 4 gun sets in both 1100 and 870. :rockOn:That being said I do remember a lot of model 12's and 42's being by today's knowledge screwed in value with over barrel conversions.
I have never seen a 1100 done but as you say they could have been.
Here on the 1100's we just added the mag tube weight and the internal weight rather than screwing up the gun. Yep I know of a 28ga model 12 that was done, wonder if he would have if he knew it would be worth about 7500 original today.
Thanks for sharing:wave:
 
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