Question about CO behaviour

While Im not a CO, I am a LEO.

I would consider it very ethically wrong to be doing this sort of activity on duty if its not work related. However, Id be lying if I said that it didnt occasionally come up that I was a LEO when I ask permission to hunt on a farmers land. I certainly dont flaunt the fact, but most land owners I've come into contact with generally ask where Im from and what I do for a living and although Im vague, Im honest.

I would never, ever consider trying to get permission while on duty. But if my job required me to speak to a landowner for some reason or another and the topic of hunting came up, I cant say I wouldnt mention something about permission if I had the chance to hit up an awesome spot and I was there anyway.

I guess it all comes down to individual ethics and what you view as right or wrong. Im very proud of my profession, but I cant say I'd go out with the intentions of using that for personal gain. Perhaps thats not what the CO in question was doing. Nobody really knows but him. I suspect that the actions you've already taken are the best idea for everyone. No doubt the CO's commanding Officer will mention the issue in the daily briefing and any issues should be resolved if its not work related. If it continues, then perhaps its time to file a formal complaint and get all the facts directly from the source.

I certainly wouldnt worry too much about becoming a target for filing a complaint. There's enough checks and balances in place for that these days.
 
Ah, come on.... really.

I know myself and I know that if I had an upper hand to gain access to more hunting areas or not I would use whatever means was available to me.... legally!!!
I don't see the issue, so he's showing up in uniform.
If it helps get him access to more private land then all the power to him, AND it probably will help.
I know a lot of land owners in my area no longer want hunters on their property due to stupid ignoramus’s leaving gates open; driving all over the place where they shouldn't be; harassing livestock .... you get the point!!
So if showing up in uniform helps to ease the farmers concerns good for him I would do the same.

Secondly I used to hunt with a couple of CO’s and let me tell you they are a great resource to have, most of them love hunting that’s why they chose the career they did.
 
jimmyjazz said:
Ah, come on.... really.

I know myself and I know that if I had an upper hand to gain access to more hunting areas or not I would use whatever means was available to me.... legally!!!
I don't see the issue, so he's showing up in uniform.
If it helps get him access to more private land then all the power to him, AND it probably will help.
I know a lot of land owners in my area no longer want hunters on their property due to stupid ignoramus’s leaving gates open; driving all over the place where they shouldn't be; harassing livestock .... you get the point!!
So if showing up in uniform helps to ease the farmers concerns good for him I would do the same.

Secondly I used to hunt with a couple of CO’s and let me tell you they are a great resource to have, most of them love hunting that’s why they chose the career they did.
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You have summed up perfectly why a person with your views should not be a suitable candidate to be a LEO.

It's called ethics and it's different than legal.

We all agree on this site that the measures enacted by C-68 are legal. Passed by Parliament and enacted into law.

How much of it was ethical?

How much of what Wendy, Allan Rock, Mark Holland and all the rest have said and done was legal and how much was ethical?

We can't have it both ways. Ethics, the concepts of right and wrong, can't be applied when it suits or benefits you.

In fact, they HAVE to be applied specifically when it's tough. And clearly, using one's public servant/paid for with public funds/government job to either intimidate or influence in other ways to gain a personal advantage is wrong. Full stop.

BTW, if the CO didn't mean to intimidate, what's with asking for the names and addresses of those that had been given permission?
 
canvasback said:
BTW, if the CO didn't mean to intimidate, what's with asking for the names and addresses of those that had been given permission?
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Ring ring:

Canvasback: Hello?

CO: Hello, is this Mr. Canvasback?

Canvasback: Yes, who's this?

CO: My name is so and so, I'm a conservation officer who was doing a patrol near so and so's farm this morning and when I spoke to so and so he told me you were hunting in the area and gave me your number. I'm new to the area and had some questions about:

1.) The numbers of game you are seeing.

2.) Have you noticed any illegal or questionable activity in the area.

3.) Could you point me towards a good spot where I might be able to shoot a few deer.

4.) Would you or your group like a new member to hunt with.

5.) Just this morning I saw a massive 6x6 not three miles down the road, I thought you might be interested in knowing his location.


This place is so anti-authority it's stupid.
:rolleyes:
 
pharaoh2 said:
Ring ring:

Canvasback: Hello?

CO: Hello, is this Mr. Canvasback?

Canvasback: Yes, who's this?

CO: My name is so and so, I'm a conservation officer who was doing a patrol near so and so's farm this morning and when I spoke to so and so he told me you were hunting in the area and gave me your number. I'm new to the area and had some questions about:

1.) The numbers of game you are seeing.

2.) Have you noticed any illegal or questionable activity in the area.

3.) Could you point me towards a good spot where I might be able to shoot a few deer.

4.) Would you or your group like a new member to hunt with.

5.) Just this morning I saw a massive 6x6 not three miles down the road, I thought you might be interested in knowing his location.


This place is so anti-authority it's stupid.
:rolleyes:
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I don't think he meant to intimidate the hunters. IF intimidation was his intent, it was more likely directed at the property owner.

My point, which you missed, was not about don't ask permission. Just do it as a private citizen, not a representative of the crown. It has nothing to do with being anti-authority. It has to do with being ethical.

Is that so hard to understand?
 
Unless it was part of an official investigation,I will not give out the names of people that I give permission to, or any information about them. Unless he is acting in an official capacity,it is none of his business.
 
He probably shouldn't be doing it, but in reality what is he doing to hurt anyone? He actually sounds like a decent guy. Probably tough for COs to get out and enjoy hunting given how busy they must be during hunting season. Worth encouraging him.
 
Thanks for your thoughts guys. I'm happy with how this has turned out so far. I'm not trying to be anti-authority at all about this.

I guess what really bothers me is things like this -

- Opening day of spring turkey and all 3 local MNR enforcement trucks are parked in their usual place at the local OPP detachment.
- Or the stories I hear (anecdotal) of guys spearing truck loads of pickerel and shooting deer at night.
- Or that I haven't actually run into a CO while fishing or hunting for the past 7-8 years (I hunt and fish a lot).
- Rumours of the enforcement trucks parked because they don't have a fuel budget.
- All the other fvckups the Ontario MNR has done with big game tag allocations over the years.

I'm not really mad at the CO personnally, I'm mad because there seems to be little or no enforcement or management by the MNR due to budget constraints, but then I hear about this guy scouting and permission seeking while on duty.

There was another CO years ago nearby that did the same thing and managed to get the existing hunters kicked out and took over their hunting spots. He did this by convincing the landowners that the hunters were breaking the laws and the landowners kicked the hunters out.

I'm not saying that this guy was intending to do this, but the thoughts are in the back of my head.

At the end of the day, I'm mad because the MNR appears to not have the budget to do their jobs effectively and yet they appear to have no issues with COs traveling around on the taxpayer dime to get hunting permission while leveraging their position as a LEO.

Anyways, I'm sure I'll be seeing this CO next week during the deer hunt so we will see if he is a good guy or not.

Ryan - We probably won't get out for goose anymore this year, but I'll see if we can arrange it so you can tag along for a few field hunts next year. I'll warn you though, we;re lousy shots :D
 
Opening day of spring turkey and all 3 local MNR enforcement trucks are parked in their usual place at the local OPP detachment./QUOTE]

In BC they roll together so as to be able to enforce all the acts.

Or the stories I hear (anecdotal) of guys spearing truck loads of pickerel and shooting deer at night./QUOTE]

Are you serious? Tales of poachers are alot easier to fabricate then authenticate.

I haven't actually run into a CO while fishing or hunting for the past 7-8 years/QUOTE]

This Just means you did not run into them. It does mean that they did not run into you. Just because most COs can investigate with out interfering with your day is not a negative.

Chances are about 99% that this CO is either just doing his job. Either way you don't want as much attention given to you as you are giving to him.
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When I use to coach junior soccer, my assistant coach was a local RCMP officer. He would always show up for games in his uniform and packing his gunbelt.


Did he use his "uniform" to intimidate the other team coaches, yes I felt he did. He was very animated and rather loud and like to pull up his gunbelt every few minutes. Complaints were filed and he eventually started showing up in proper civilian attire.

You want to play take off the uniform.
 
Her eis what I think about the situation

Who gives a shiat?

How does this really impact you? Why make it an issue if nobody is "getting hurt" so to speak.

His job takes him into the area, so it simply makes sense to make a stop while he is in the area. CO's get coffee breaks and lunch breaks, too.

If he is like virtually every other CO I know, he does lots of unpaid overtime,too. Now he might be getting flack from his boss because some busybody bedwetter had to complain about the horrific crime of asking for permission.:kickInTheNuts:
 
^^^ Well perhaps... I see it as an abuse of his position using taxpayer resources. Maybe the guy is a stand up guy, maybe he isn't. I don't care. As I see it, if he wants to ask permission, he should do so without his badge. If he is investigating something, that's fine, he is doing his job and I will support him with any info I can provide.
 
daveg01 said:
^^^ Well perhaps... I see it as an abuse of his position using taxpayer resources. Maybe the guy is a stand up guy, maybe he isn't. I don't care. As I see it, if he wants to ask permission, he should do so without his badge. If he is investigating something, that's fine, he is doing his job and I will support him with any info I can provide.
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Why do you feel it is your business to dictate to him how and when he should be asking someone for permission?
 
Gatehouse said:
Why do you feel it is your business to dictate to him how and when he should be asking someone for permission?
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As a taxpayer, yes. I believe he should be asking on his own time (and out of uniform) and the 3 different people I spoke to at the MNR including the manager of enforcement agreed with me.
 
daveg01 said:
As a taxpayer, yes. I believe he should be asking on his own time (and out of uniform) and the 3 different people I spoke to at the MNR including the manager of enforcement agreed with me.
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Oh the horror.....Think of the tax dollars wasted on his 15 minute coffee break while he talked to the farmer.
 
Gatehouse said:
Why do you feel it is your business to dictate to him how and when he should be asking someone for permission?
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It's pretty clear daveg01 isn't "dictating". He is responding to the point brought up by the OP.

Secondly, the same question could be posed to you. Why do you feel it necessary to dictate how Daveg01 and I and the others who feel this is a conflict of interest and a question of ethical behavior, should feel.

Thirdly, while Dave has already answered your question, it should have been obvious....he is a public servant paid with our tax money.
 
canvasback said:
It's pretty clear daveg01 isn't "dictating". He is responding to the point brought up by the OP.

Secondly, the same question could be posed to you. Why do you feel it necessary to dictate how Daveg01 and I and the others who feel this is a conflict of interest and a question of ethical behavior, should feel.

Thirdly, while Dave has already answered your question, it should have been obvious....he is a public servant paid with our tax money.
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I'm not dictating how anyone feels about the issue, I'm mocking some people for being bedwetters that feel the need to stick their noses into someones business when there was no real harm done.
 
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