38 special ++P++ loads

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prosper

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I'm thinking - if I load 38spl to .357 magnum OAL's (not seating the bullet as deeply, thus leaving the same amount of capacity as actual .357 loads) - I see no reason why I couldn't use .357 load data. Obviously, such rounds could only be fired in guns designed for 357's - but given the longer OAL, they wouldn't fit in 38spl cylinders anyway.

I think I'm going to trim back a .357 casing to the same length as a .38spl casing, and then weigh them both to see if the case head is any thicker, but my suspicion is that it's the same; that manfacturers probably use the same tooling to produce both.

Can anyone think of a reason why this wouldn't work?
 
38 need to be seated to the OAL of a 38 not!!! the 357 i would not do it, load 38 or 357 but to try to use a 357 cut to a 38? why? 158gr 357 with 6.7 231w powder is too hot for the 38. the 38 is only 3.5gr. that is 96% over charge, that is to hot. the hotest max pressure was 5.2 gr !!! are you trying to make power factor or do you want speed?
 
prosper, be careful whose brass you use. Not all brass is created equal.

That being said, I've done what you're describing with Winchester and Federal brass. I didn't see any ill effects on any of the cases or the pistol.

Pressures may even be a bit lower with any given recipe. There is 1/8 inch less of the bullet being held by brass tension. This could possibly actually keep velocities in the same range as the 38 spcl. Without the higher pressures, the powder may not burn as efficiently. One thing I do remember though there was a lot of escaping flame and gas between the cylinder barrel gap. It may have been my imagination but there seemed to be more with the 38spcl brass than the 357. This makes sense as well now that I think about it.

I haven't done anything like this for a long time. Back when I first started to hand load, everything had to be ordered in from a mail order house or through a shop from his supplier. I can remember waiting almost a year to get 357 mag brass. Needless to say, being enthusiastic and inventive, I did exactly what you describe. There was a louder bang and a lot more flash from a 4 inch barrel and doubtfully not much if any gain.

As I mentioned, there were no ill effects that were visible. That pistol, to my knowledge has since had thousands of full house commercial 357mag ammo fired through it since I sold it. It's looking pretty worn but the trigger is still smooth as glass and it still shoots where you point it.
 
I once had two 357 revolvers, a Big frame S&W and a Ruger Security Six.
I bought two Lyman molds, both for the Elmer Keith designed bullet weighing about 160 grains. One mold was for gas check bullets, the other was flat base. This bullet was probably the best and most widely reloaded, of any 357 bullet.
But, there is a problem with that bullet. When it is crimped in it's proper crimping groove in a 357 case, the overall length is too long for some revolvers, including the large frame Smith & Wesson. It would go in the Ruger, OK, but stuck out of the cyolinder with the Smith.
In the 1970s and 80s, the most respected name in revolver shooting information was Skeeter Skelton, pistol shooting editor of Guns and Ammo, as well as being Sheriff of Deaf Smith County, Texas.
As Skeeter wrote, there were two ways to solve the problem of cartridges being too long for some guns, with the famous Keith bullet.
You could use 357 brass and crimp it over the shoulder, instead of in its proper crimping groove.
Or, you could use 38 Special brass and crimp in the usual crimping groove. This method, 38 Special brass, was the one Skeeter preferred and stated he had shot a great many thousands of rounds this way, using full power 357 magnum loads.
The chamber for powder is nearly identical for either method, as in either way, the bullet just nicely goes in the shorter Smith cylinder.
I once chronographed five cartridges in the Ruger, of each method, with a full power magnum load. They were about identical, as one would expect them to be.
Warning to loaders; load your cartridges the way your loading book states to load them.
Don't load by what someone on here tells you, if it differs from what your loading book states.
 
I hadn't considered the issue of the crimp groove.

It doesn't really matter, as 357 brass is easy to come by. I was just thinking about how the 357 was developed in the first place, with 38spl brass and heavy charges.
 
prosper said:
It doesn't really matter, as 357 brass is easy to come by. I was just thinking about how the 357 was developed in the first place, with 38spl brass and heavy charges.
Click to expand...

You are right.

That's why I load .38 spl brass with 158 grain LSWC (4.6 grains 700x) to 1,000 fps routinely. No signs of over pressure, extraction is just as easy are regular 38 spl loads, primer flattening is not an issue.

I'll try 4.8 - 4.9 grains 700X next time.

I think I had an accidental double charge of 4.6 grains 700X today, as the report and recoil were similar to a 357 mag. This suspected double charge stuck a bit and required a little nudge from the extractor. The GP100 laughed it off:)

The brass did not split, but the primer was as flattened as with full house .357s.except 357 mag brass extract easily from my both 686 or GP100, just tilt the muzzle up and the empties fall.

I do have an adequate supply of .357 brass but do not like the chore of re-setting dies. Maybe if I buy another set of dies for .357 use only, I will use my .357 brass regularly...but till then, why bother.

I have been thinking of loading 12.5 grains 2400 under 158 grain JHP in 38 spl cases, although 12.5 grains might be a compressed charge. I load 14 grains 2400 under this bullet in .357 mag brass and it looks like the case is full.
 
I use trailboss in my 4.2 GP100, 5.0 grains, 160 grain aim jacketed bullet. Fills the 38 special case without compressing the charge. It's super clean and super accurate, makes power factor for IDPA easily, just have to find what I did with the Chrony numbers..
 
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I have done it with no problem. Not 100% 357 power, but well into the 357 pressure range.

I stopped when I picked 1000 pieces of 357 brass because it was begging for the day one of them got stuffed into a 38 Spl.

Murphy looks for those opportunities.
 
Sure, it's been done before.
I have an older Gun Digest book, on the subject of Metallic Silhouette Shooting.
Handgunners used this same combination in thier 357s and seated 200 grain bullets made for the 35 Remington in 38 Special brass with stiff loads of powder.
I think a little common sense should prevail here. Don't shoot these in 357 K or J frames for pete's sake.
And last but not least, keep these segregated from any other pistol ammunition.
Let's hope your 357 Magnum launcher is a S&W N-frame, a GP-100, Colt King Cobra or a Ruger Blackhawk. Maybe something else, but of equal strength at least.
 
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