300 win mag or 7mm rem mag

pharaoh2 said:
It depends on the person, not science.
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No, it depends on science, not the person.

Recoil is a result of the laws of physics, not something one person experiences and another does not. There is a lot of validity to the physics of smaller people moving easier (less inertia) and experiencing the effects of recoil over a larger time and distance as a result. That would make it less "violent" for them, and less likely to bruise or hurt. If a smaller person knows how to shoot, there is no problem dealing with large forces of recoil. "Roll with the punch" is about exactly the same principle. It's pure physics - science in other words.

Stock design of the .30-30 (especially the Winchesters) makes their felt recoil quite out of proportion for the cartridge. Fire it in a proper stock with less drop at the comb and a better pad, and the round is a pussy cat.
 
pharaoh2 said:
People have different tollerances to different things. Physics aside, some people can handle recoil better or worse then others. It's not just stock designs, it's individual bodies.
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People do have different tolerances to recoil. Those tolerances, especially when it comes to recoil, are almost purely psychological. It's not individual bodies; it's individual minds.

There is just not enough actual force involved in rifle recoil to do much damage to a human if that human can shoot rifles properly. Individual bodies will not be affected differently by any given rifle load. Individual minds will be better able to ignore the blast and smack of recoil over some others. Training and technique are vital to someone learning to ignore it.

Physics cannot be put aside. All the facts about recoil are the result of the physics of shooting bullets from guns.

If you do not understand how important stock design is to the perception of felt recoil (the delivery of recoil energy through the butt of the gun) you know very little about guns. If you actually believe that the roughly 20 ft/lbs of recoil from a 9 lb. 7mm Rem is enough to have different effects on people due to differences in their physiology, you know very little about human physiology.
 
I am not new to hunting. I've hunted since I was 12 years old. I started with a 303 british for the first few years and then I switch to a 30 06. All my hunting trips are within the province of saskatchewan where I live so ammo is not a factor in it at all. I just have an urge to buy a new rifle and something with some power and a pretty flat trajectory. I want something that will take down a moose or elk with ease and take a down a deer on the prairies from a distance if its big enough to need to a long shot. I'm realizing between the 7mm rem mag and a 300 win mag is just a preference. I think i will be looking into getting a Browning BRL lightweight w/ pistol grip lever action 7mm rem mag.

thanks for all the replies guys
 
I have hunted and handloaded the 7mm mag for about 10 years now and it is still my go to for any game. I owned a 300 Mag in a model 70 for a number of years and handloaded it as well but in the end I liked the 7mm better. I like the options for the 7mm mag better than the 300. Bullet selection is excellent. 140 grain for deer, 160 or 175 for moose or big bears.

These days even the recoil of the 7mm mag gets a bit much at the range while playing or working up loads.

I am shooting my 7X57 more and more.

In the end I have to pick the 7mm mag over the 300 mag.
 
Owens said:
I am not new to hunting. I've hunted since I was 12 years old. I started with a 303 british for the first few years and then I switch to a 30 06. All my hunting trips are within the province of saskatchewan where I live so ammo is not a factor in it at all. I just have an urge to buy a new rifle and something with some power and a pretty flat trajectory. I want something that will take down a moose or elk with ease and take a down a deer on the prairies from a distance if its big enough to need to a long shot. I'm realizing between the 7mm rem mag and a 300 win mag is just a preference. I think i will be looking into getting a Browning BRL lightweight w/ pistol grip lever action 7mm rem mag.

thanks for all the replies guys
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Good choice........
 
Owens said:
I am not new to hunting. I've hunted since I was 12 years old. I started with a 303 british for the first few years and then I switch to a 30 06. All my hunting trips are within the province of saskatchewan where I live so ammo is not a factor in it at all. I just have an urge to buy a new rifle and something with some power and a pretty flat trajectory. I want something that will take down a moose or elk with ease and take a down a deer on the prairies from a distance if its big enough to need to a long shot. I'm realizing between the 7mm rem mag and a 300 win mag is just a preference. I think i will be looking into getting a Browning BRL lightweight w/ pistol grip lever action 7mm rem mag.

thanks for all the replies guys
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good choice !Ive never heard of anyone selling a gun because it recoiled too little. 7mag can get flatter at long ranges but on close shots my experiences have shown low penetration at 3000+fps impact velocities making me hesitant on 1/4 towards shots on a bull, plus the violent expansion wastes a lot of meat. and this wasn't the case with the winmag
 
12many said:
good choice !Ive never heard of anyone selling a gun because it recoiled too little. 7mag can get flatter at long ranges but on close shots my experiences have shown low penetration at 3000+fps impact velocities making me hesitant on 1/4 towards shots on a bull, plus the violent expansion wastes a lot of meat. and this wasn't the case with the winmag
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Use a tsx bullet.
 
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Since everybody wanted to jump down my throat for mentioning ammo availability, think about this:

I live a minimum of 2 hours from anyplace other than the local hardware store to buy ammo. I don't particularly care for doubling my ammo cost through having it shipped by Cabela's or anyone else that adds a surcharge for ammo through a shipper of dangerous goods that doesn't service the location where I live- we have NO Canpar, no Loomis, barely Purolator and DHL. When I do go to those other places where I can buy ammo, there are numerous times I can't get the ammo (or particular specialty load) I want- because there are TOO MANY DAMN CHAMBERINGS OUT THERE, AND NO DEALER CAN PLEASE EVERYBODY!!!

I don't mind oddball chamberings. I handload. I've got rifles now in .243, 7mm-08, 30-06 and .45-70. No oddballs there. And guess what? Ammo availability is still sometimes an issue. It might not be exactly what I wanted, but it'll be something that I can work with. That doesn't help if there's none on the shelves, and I've seen that happen around here and Grande Prairie with 7mm Rem Mag. Often if they have anything, the bullet type/weight is either too far off from what my buddy's rifle digests well or costs $80 a box.

If a guy is just starting out, only has one rifle to work with, or doesn't have time to shop around or work up a handload for something, it makes sense to take something in a common cartridge. When he's got time and money to spare, by all means go for something else.

Go back and read my whole post again. Carefully. And stop thinking everybody lives a stone's throw from a metropolitan area. Wow.
 
rral22:

What you say about recoil being a phycological/physics thing is true, to a point.

But saying that recoil tolerance has "no bearing" on a persons phsyiology?
Couldnt be a more incorrect.

Physics dictates action and reaction, with energy transfer of/to matter.

That is true, but not when it pertains to a living entity/person. Perception, and physical response is as varied as people are.
Human physiology varies greatly as well.

I can shoot pretty much any normal caliber up to the 460 Weatherby from the bench accurately.

But, the amount of recoil (stock design included) will dictate how long my recovery will be.
My shoulder has arthritis, so my physiological condition dictates how much I enjoy/suffer from recoil.

It really sucks to say the least! The biggest rifle that I can presently shoot (conventional stock designed rifles)without suffering, is a 30-06 class rifle. Shooting this caliber leaves me sore for about half a day, give or take.

Full loads(10-15 rounds +), in a 45-70,458win, 338winmag, etc. Will leave me sore for 2-3 days, or more! i can still shoot them accurately even if It hurts me,buuutt!

A persons body/phsyology and mind can either handle the recoil of a given firearm/cartridge, or it cant. Simple as that.

Only through training/disipline/experience, can a person/shooter overcome this.

My 7-08 is one of my favorites. I can shoot 50 rounds a day, with no ill effect(rem700 laminate).
My heavy 110BA in 300Win Mag is the same as my 7-08. Wonderful brake design as well!

I hope my shoulder doesnt get worse.
 
NorthernCX said:
Since everybody wanted to jump down my throat for mentioning ammo availability, think about this:

I live a minimum of 2 hours from anyplace other than the local hardware store to buy ammo. I don't particularly care for doubling my ammo cost through having it shipped by Cabela's or anyone else that adds a surcharge for ammo through a shipper of dangerous goods that doesn't service the location where I live- we have NO Canpar, no Loomis, barely Purolator and DHL. When I do go to those other places where I can buy ammo, there are numerous times I can't get the ammo (or particular specialty load) I want- because there are TOO MANY DAMN CHAMBERINGS OUT THERE, AND NO DEALER CAN PLEASE EVERYBODY!!!

I don't mind oddball chamberings. I handload. I've got rifles now in .243, 7mm-08, 30-06 and .45-70. No oddballs there. And guess what? Ammo availability is still sometimes an issue. It might not be exactly what I wanted, but it'll be something that I can work with. That doesn't help if there's none on the shelves, and I've seen that happen around here and Grande Prairie with 7mm Rem Mag. Often if they have anything, the bullet type/weight is either too far off from what my buddy's rifle digests well or costs $80 a box.

If a guy is just starting out, only has one rifle to work with, or doesn't have time to shop around or work up a handload for something, it makes sense to take something in a common cartridge. When he's got time and money to spare, by all means go for something else.

Go back and read my whole post again. Carefully. And stop thinking everybody lives a stone's throw from a metropolitan area. Wow.
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I live 2hrs. from a "metropolitan area" and i never have any problem getting ammo, i went into my local hardware store and they didnt have the exact bullet i shoot in my deer rifle, no worries though because i keep a few boxes on hand, i asked the clerk there if it was something they could order and they ordered a few boxes in and i got one and they now stock it, part of owning a rifle that your local hardware store doesn't stock ammo for is keeping a few boxes on hand, and getting more before your all out, if you wait til you fire your last shell to buy ammo than id say you need to be more prepared, and you your self said that you can't please everyone, and that is true, the 30-06 is very popular but every 30-06 owner cant walk into the same store and buy there exact favorite load, therefore they need to keep some on hand, so therefore it doesn't matter what your rifles chambered in you still may not be able to buy your favorite load everywhere you go,it doesn't mean ammo is hard to get it means your favorite ammo is hard to get, this is where handloaders have a big advantage. . .
 
l.denison said:
i hate when people bring up availability of ammo, theres this place called cabelas that will ship you whatever you want. you dont go to a gun shop and say well i useally shoot accutips but all they have is core-lokt so that will have to do, you order the accutips you useally shoot, and like ive said before if you go on a hunt and forget something as important as ammo, thats the least of your worries!
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I leave from my house for big game hunts (ie. I take the Atv trail 100 feet from my doorstep). I live 100km from the nearest store that sells ammo except for the local hardware store that stocks 303, 308, 30-06, 22lr and 12ga. So those are my options. Oh and we only have Canada post shipping available.
 
I've had both, even at the same time, and hunted/killed big game with both. I really don't think there is much practical difference between the two. One thing that used to hold true in the past is that heavy bullet availability for the .300 made it a great choice for heavier game. Although I am not sure a 220gr Partition at 2850 fps would do much more than a 175gr Partition at 3000 fps.
 
I like the 300 win recoil is not that great an issue my Dad uses one and is 77 years old just filled his white tail buck tag using it and 168gr berger hunting vld's I have a 300 win in a old BSA and it is my favorite also have a 300ultra in a sendero nice gun but still prefer the 300win . Bullet selection is just better for the 300 over 7mm I've got 3 friends that hunt with 7mm's and have found them fussier to get to shoot good groups not saying they won't they just seem more finicky as to bullet and powder combinations.
 
DEZ said:
Bullet selection is just better for the 300 over 7mm I've got 3 friends that hunt with 7mm's and have found them fussier to get to shoot good groups not saying they won't they just seem more finicky as to bullet and powder combinations.
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I haven't found the 7mm to be more finicky. In fact about a month ago I loaded up some 140gr TTSX - one set with each of the following powders: H1000, IMR 4350, RL22 and IMR 7828. The H1000 and RL22 both went into abou 3/4" and the other two were just over an inch (I can't remember exactly but they were ~1.25" or so).

Two out of four went into 3/4" - with no messing around with seating depth or powder charges.

I find that if you have a good barrel the rifle will shoot with an "appropriate" load. By appropriate I mean right weight bullet for twist, proper burn rate for case capacity etc.
 
l.denison said:
I live 2hrs. from a "metropolitan area" and i never have any problem getting ammo, i went into my local hardware store and they didnt have the exact bullet i shoot in my deer rifle, no worries though because i keep a few boxes on hand, i asked the clerk there if it was something they could order and they ordered a few boxes in and i got one and they now stock it, part of owning a rifle that your local hardware store doesn't stock ammo for is keeping a few boxes on hand, and getting more before your all out, if you wait til you fire your last shell to buy ammo than id say you need to be more prepared, and you your self said that you can't please everyone, and that is true, the 30-06 is very popular but every 30-06 owner cant walk into the same store and buy there exact favorite load, therefore they need to keep some on hand, so therefore it doesn't matter what your rifles chambered in you still may not be able to buy your favorite load everywhere you go,it doesn't mean ammo is hard to get it means your favorite ammo is hard to get, this is where handloaders have a big advantage. . .
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I would have to agree with him. If you have a certain ammo (oddball or not) you like to use which almost everyone does. You should never run lower than 2 boxes before trying to find more. If you live 100km from a main center then you should call ahead and if they don't have it most places will order it for you. I know my local gun shop in Kindersley will order me whatever i need. We are by no means a big center. You just have to plan ahead. We plan everything else for a hunt as soon as you know you have been drawn or just know the opening date of a season so I'm sure we can plan ahead to make sure we have plenty of ammo. For this reason I would never consider ammo availability a reason to buy a gun or not to.
 
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