Gas piston system

snowman48

snowman48

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I was wondering if there is any real advantage in getting one of these, would there be a noticable difference in performance.
 
No. I believe the only time there would be an advantage would be on a dedicated piston design, like the HK, and then I would say the advantages would only crop up if you were running a suppressor.

For non-suppressed use, I don't think the HK is any better.

And piston kits are nowhere near as good...as a matter of fact I would say they are inferior to direct impingement. My belief is that they exist primarily to pry money out of the pockets of people who do not know what they're buying.
 
Yes

snowman48 said:
I was wondering if there is any real advantage in getting one of these, would there be a noticable difference in performance.
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Yes there are advantages and changes in performance.

Advantages -
Cooler chamber, cleaner chamber and bolt environment (less maintenance more reliability).
Faster cycling (good for a race gun).

Disadvantage - reciprocating parts on the barrel supposedly affecting accuracy.

I run both D.I and piston guns and have not found an accuracy difference.I prefer piston, but if I was running a heavy barrel Match A.R. I wouldnt use a piston just for peace of mind.

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I run both DI and Piston. For Piston if i was going to go into war tomorrow I would only take HK or possibly a POF, not sure about LWRC yet though. For cleaning, the Piston is far easier and faster, that much is certain, as for accuracy well I have not noticed a difference yet, but then again I'm using HK's. Would love to see KAC make a piston version and do a side by side comparison to SASS in that configuration, I know they have made piston guns, according to KevinB(If I remember correctly). I think if you need something like an M110 SASS the DI will work best, but overall I think the piston might be better for over all use. Hard to really say, and really what is easier for manufacturing? that might determine a winner right there. Really I would just buy both, and I did....hahah.
 
Unless you're playing on a two way range, the choice only really comes down to how much you like cleaning your rifle. Although some say that piston systems aren't as precise as DI, I have seen some wicked shooting piston systems.

My most accurate AR was a Norinco 14.5" rifle (I jest not). Having said that, my current go-to AR is a PWS Mk110 piston system. It runs clean and seems to get more accurate as time goes on.
 
I would not run an add on piston kit. I would run (and do) an HK, a POF, and a PWS. All 3 have been flawless and I would trust my life to any of the 3. As soon as we can get LWRC I will try one of them as well. I will echo the sentiments that some have already expressed, I have not seen worse accuracy from my piston guns than from my DI's, however I am not doing serious long range target work. In that case there may be some advantage accuracy wise to the DI.
 
I own both di and piston ar15s and I don't really notice a difference in performance between the two types. My pistons get the most use at the range since they are a lot easier to clean.

That being said if my life was on the line i would still go di. I simply have more familiarity with the di platform and trust it. Just have to spend a little bit of effort to clean and maintain. However my pws mk107 diablo is slowly changing my attitudes one range session at a time...
 
Piston is a great marketing method -- especially when one can fire coming out of the water (despite water obscuring your optic).

We have done piston guns, and are of the opinion the negatives are not worth the few advantages.
 
chopper 1 said:
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44396Af21_w.jpg





Yes there are advantages and changes in performance.

Advantages -
Cooler chamber, cleaner chamber and bolt environment (less maintenance more reliability).
Faster cycling (good for a race gun).
Click to expand...

Faster cycling?
Is this the part where you intended to say piston guns beat the hell out of bolts and barrel extensions? Or were you hinting at the issues HK is having keeping firing pins inside their carriers?

No?

The cyclic rate of the 416 is the same as DI rifles so I am not tracking where you were heading..........
 
KevinB said:
Piston is a great marketing method -- especially when one can fire coming out of the water (despite water obscuring your optic).

We have done piston guns, and are of the opinion the negatives are not worth the few advantages.
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This. The HK416 is a very nice rifle and is probably creme of the drop for piston but if given a choice I'd probably pick a DI gun in the end. The AR15 was designed from the ground up for DI. No matter how good the engineering you're still compromising somewhere when compared to a rifle designed around a piston system.
 
Gunnerlove said:
Faster cycling?
Is this the part where you intended to say piston guns beat the hell out of bolts and barrel extensions? Or were you hinting at the issues HK is having keeping firing pins inside their carriers?

No?

44396Af21_w.jpg

The cyclic rate of the 416 is the same as DI rifles so I am not tracking where you were heading..........
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I have an Adams Arms piston gun with a high round count and the bolt and barrel extension look like new.There are NO mechanical problems or premature wear areas.

We have tested it in comparison to D.I. guns using an IPSC timer with various operators.

The piston gun always does quicker double taps.
Not much faster, but enough to matter in competition.

You may disagree - I am just sharing my experiences rather than conventional theory or opinion.


:ar15:
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Aren't the "add on/after market" piston kits no good? And if a guy really wants a piston AR , he should get a dedicated piston AR from a reputable maker? I'm pretty sure my statements a pretty close to being accurate but I am just going off of what I have read.

Isn't carrier tilt the other problem with piston guns?
 
chopper 1 said:
The piston gun always does quicker double taps.
Not much faster, but enough to matter in competition.
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Now, I've heard several good reasons why a piston system better than a DI (Which really only pertains to going into combat), but I have never heard that a piston can double tap quicker than a DI...
 
chopper 1 said:
I have an Adams Arms piston gun with a high round count and the bolt and barrel extension look like new.There are NO mechanical problems or premature wear areas.

We have tested it in comparison to D.I. guns using an IPSC timer with various operators.

The piston gun always does quicker double taps.
Not much faster, but enough to matter in competition.

You may disagree - I am just sharing my experiences rather than conventional theory or opinion.


:ar15:
swingerlh.gif
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I would suspect this is due to either the operator, or the BCG. If the BCG of the DI gun is an F/A BCG, and the piston is an S/A, the piston gun would have a slightly higher cyclic rate than the DI gun, but it would not be due to the presence of a piston, but to other factors (the BCG).

Additionally, the cyclic rate of 2 comparable DI/piston guns like the M16 and H&K 416 are both listed as 700-900 rounds/min.
 
I think this topic will evolve into another .45 ACP vs 9 mm Para! One fundamental engineering principle (which engineers violate all the time) is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I have three DI AR's and one piston ( a Stag). For the uses we civilians put our AR's through there's no advantage of a piston version but there are no drawbacks either, really. I like the piston version a bit more because it allows me to run it without cleaning, but well lubricated, longer than my DI's. My Stag is more accurate than my other DI with the same configuration (M4) but this maybe due to better quality barrel.

Buy both and enjoy their differences :)
 
I believe the only time there would be an advantage would be on a dedicated piston design, like the HK, and then I would say the advantages would only crop up if you were running a suppressor.
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Actually piston guns are worse for use with suppressors. All piston systems vent excess gas to the atmosphere which creates extra noise. It is near impossible to get a suppressed piston gun below the 140 dB hearing safe threshold as a result. Whereas suppressed DI guns can run as much as 6 - 8 dB quieter.

When running a suppressor the increased back pressure will drive gas out the ejection port even on a piston gun.
 
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